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» One Touch Football - Archive » Music » It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) (Page 6)

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Author Topic: It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
Spearmint Rhino
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Hahaha. Oh shit.
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adams house cat
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This has just come to me. Does anybody see any parallel with Elvis Costello's 'Ohio' incident when he made ill-judged remarks about Ray Charles and others? I understand it got him a slapping from Bonnie Raitt, for a start, but he was also hauled over the coals by the media and was forced to justify/apologize on TV. He claimed it damaged his career. Does the fact that this happened in America make a difference?

What would have happened if Wire had made those comments from a stage in, say, San Francico, Miami or New York?

[ 20.03.2008, 17:20: Message edited by: adams house cat ]

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TV's 'Mr P'
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For what it's worth, I doubt very much that Wire is/was a 'homophobe' per se, but I think what he said was more than borderline homophobic - and he must have had some inkling a line like that would be taken as such.

quote:
I can picture the scene of him slapping his forehead when this connotation was put to him.
Hmmm. I doubt it. Apart from the fact that I don't think it would have needed to 'dawn on him' like that, I seriously doubt he'd have lost too much sleep over making the comment. Back then, he probably thought it sounded terribly dangerous and/or controversial - which is what (50% of) the MSPs were going out of their way to be at that point. And indeed was probably what their management/entourage wanted from them anyway. I imagine the resultant publicity was just what their bosses wanted, unfortunately.
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Bored Of The Dance
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I know, I was just being the truculent teenager of the board because I knew The Horse had said it better and with bigger words

Talking of which

quote:
I never took the Stipe/Mercury comment as indicating that Wire is homophobic.
and, as I said, I don't think that Wire is any more homophobic than I am or any of us. There is an interesting debate to be had as to how many reacist/homophobic remarks someone canmake before they are regarded as racist and/or homophobic but one ill-judged remark is nowhere near it.

At best, Wire made a stupid remark that could be construed as homophobic and his "faggot" remark shows that he knew that, even if it was after the event. (Sorry, SR, I know you regret passing on that remark but the genie can't go back in the bottle now)

The main thing on Wire's side is that he genuinely seems regretful about it since and, as SR says, he has been anything but homophobic since and before.

I can't help comparing this to Sebastian Bach wearing that "AIDS kills faggots dead" t-shirt that was thrown onstage.

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Harry Carpenter
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A comparison which puts Wire in a much better light than Bach, of course?
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TV's 'Mr P'
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I'm not sure I agree, HC. The difference with Bach's is that it's scarily dumb-ass - 'Wiregate' is wilfully crass and stupid.

I'm not sure which bothers me the more.

[ 20.03.2008, 17:21: Message edited by: TV's 'Mr P' ]

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Bored Of The Dance
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quote:
And indeed was probably what their management/entourage wanted from them anyway. I imagine the resultant publicity was just what their bosses wanted, unfortunately.
Yes, the manipulative cunts. Anything to sell concert tickets
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TV's 'Mr P'
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(God help us, there are ways and means of promoting an artist, Bored...)
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Bored Of The Dance
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quote:
A comparison which puts Wire in a much better light than Bach, of course?
I am genuinely not sure either way.

Bach allegedly put on the T-shirt "accidentally" without knowing what was written on it.

Wire wished death from AIDS on a gay man deliberately and then referred to "faggots" in, what I believe is, an "ironic" manner.

I can't remember much about the press reporting/"witch-hunts" either way and I can't remember what apologies were put forward by either after the event

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Harry Carpenter
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quote:
And indeed was probably what their management/entourage wanted from them anyway. I imagine the resultant publicity was just what their bosses wanted, unfortunately.
I think you're 100% wrong there. The band's management have always bemoaned Wire's outbursts as being counter-productive and things like the Stipe comment have never really helped them sell one album or ticket, in fact they've probably alienated far more people.

There is a corrolary between the band's most successful periods and the lack of Wire's gratuitously negative pronouncments.

[ 20.03.2008, 17:30: Message edited by: Harry Carpenter ]

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Not me
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quote:
the idea that he was playing on other people's prejudices deliberately is a massive stretch (it was a bizarrely oblique way of doing it, if so)
See, I don't think it's any stretch at all, and it certainly was a bizarrely oblique way of doing so - that's exactly what they were like.

I think it's a comment that had the deliberate semblance of something bigoted, with the aim of making people do a double-take. It might not have been as funny or as pointed, but had the same hoiked-up disgust at phony, vacuous moralising that you get in Chris Morris's brainwrongs. There's no inherent value in being ver-ry provocative, but, you know, if Wire's comment led anyone to question the unexamined emoting about celebrity deaths while millions of normal people suffer worse every day etc etc, or the privileging of AIDS above other awful diseases and conditions, then it's alright by me, basically. Intentions and private comments don't come into it - that's how I read it at the time.

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Spearmint Rhino
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Harry's probably right there. Existing Manics fans (the hardcore variety, at least) fucking love it when Wire slags everyone off, but doesn't win over the floating voters.
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TV's 'Mr P'
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quote:
There is a corrolary between the band's most successful periods and the lack of Wire's gratuitously negative pronouncments.
Aye - when the MSPs morphed into REM etc, etc.

To be honest, HC (and Bored) my comment about the publicity was more conjecture than anything else - it just seemed to fit with the somewhat 'designer' anarchy they carried with them during that early period.

And I think Not Me cuts the man way too much slack here....

[ 20.03.2008, 17:31: Message edited by: TV's 'Mr P' ]

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Bored Of The Dance
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quote:
(God help us, there are ways and means of promoting an artist, Bored...)
Sorry, TVMP, I wasn't haven't a go at you, I was taking the piss elsewhere. AS it happens, I read that Philip Hall from their management did encourage him to say it but I doubt whether it was for outrage sake.

Thinking about it, that means that the remark was more pre-meditated than has been suggested

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Bored Of The Dance
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quote:
I did the same when I heard 'Enola Gay' come on a bus radio and nobody answered my impromptu quiz as to what the song was named after. It was only afterwards when someone pointed out that it was an insensitive thing to ask on a bus going to Tokyo that I realised what I'd done.
Racist
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