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Author Topic: Gay Sin Hint?
Gordon Bennet
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"That summer I enjoyed what had previously been denied me: a happy childhood, and while its toys were cigars and silk shirts and its misdemeanours ranked high in the catalogue of grave sins..."

So, did Charles and Sebastian actually get it on?

[ 30-09-2002, 17:06: Message edited by: Gordon Bennet ]

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Mat Pereira
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Nah, I don't think so, you know. It's the kind of un-resolved love affair of the book that, isn't it? The love that dare not speak it's name and all that. There's loads of pointers that they fancied one another though isn't there?

That's why Charles needed to get it on with Julia so much and why Sebastian hit the bottle so hard when he did. I reckon.

I reckon Sebastian and F-F-F-Fucking Anthony Flyte got it on though.

There you go. York Notes, I shit 'em.

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Gordon Bennet
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Y'see I reckon they did. And I think the clue is in the (probably paraphrased) quote above. Waugh uses the word 'sin'. Now in Brideshead, the word 'sin' is used very carefully and deliberately. The whole book was intended by Waugh as an example of (if you will) Deus ex machina. So 'sin' in that context means more than just 'being naughty'. Think about Julia's breakdown by the fountain after Bridey's 'living in sin' accusation. 'Grave sins', can only mean one thing in that context, if you ask me; especially if you view it together with Cara's cautionary lecture about 'these romantic friendships you English have'.

Dead right about Anthony B-b-b-b-blanche, though. Shagged anything in sight, that one did. Possibly even Charles.

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Diggedy Derek
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I just read this for the first time- you might have recommended it to me GB, I don't remember. I liked it a lot, and will read it again.

Anyway, yeah I don't think the sins they commited were as grave as the one you're on about. It's all restrained frustration isn't it? Yeah, so my opinion- what Matt P shat out, basically.

Good book, brilliantly written, not quite convinced by the relevance of the God stuff. Errr, 4/5.

Is that the poorest book review ever? Quite possibly.

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Caliban3
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If Waugh meant for us to think anything had happened between Charles and Sebastian, I'm sure he'd have been much more explicit about it. Has anyone read Forster's Maurice which was written around the same time? No beating around the bush there, quite literally.
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Gordon Bennet
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I think that Waugh was explicit in his way. His style is always sardonic and detached. Not at all animalistic. He barely even acknowledges that Charles and Julie got jiggy.

The nature of Charles' friendship with Sebastian has to be viewed in the context of Sebastian's relationships with Anthony Blanche and his German Foreign Legionnaire (whose name escapes me).

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Caliban3
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I know. I think they probably did as well, I just wanted to make the "beating around the bush" gag. Weren't Charles and Sebastian always driving off and having picnics underneath trees? We all know what garden imagery is about, afterall.
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Caliban3
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Anyway, while we're on the subject, does anyone else think that the beautiful, popular, exciting Rebecca in Rebecca was representative of Daphne du Maurier's lesbian alter-ego, and that that Mrs deWinter (no name=no identity) was representative of her boring plain married self? Which is why Rebecca was portrayed as evil (sexually depraved) and infertile and therefore had to be destroyed, nevertheless still haunting the sexually boring Mrs deWinter? Was Du Maurier commenting on her unhappy marriage to that RAF fella, while really she wanted to be off having sex with other women?
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Gordon Bennet
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Jamaica Inn?

No, she went in of her own accord. The closet, that is! A ha ha ha!

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Gordon Bennet
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God, I'm funny.
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Mat Pereira
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"Was Du Maurier commenting on her unhappy marriage to that RAF fella, while really she wanted to be off having sex with other women?"

Well, there's a Du Maurier short-story called 'Kiss Me Again, Stranger' about a woman chatting up RAF blokes, taking them to this cemetary she lives in and then stabbing them to death, either before, during or afterwards (she doesn't really tell you as such, it's kind of heavily implied though), so....

As to Charles and Sebastian, i'm still not convinced they did it you know. When they were under the trees as I recall all they did was eat sandwiches and drink a lot. They might have snogged I suppose, or at most Sebastian might have wanked Charles off.

I dunno, i'll have to read the book again.

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Gordon Bennet
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Probably there was no hanky panky under that tree. It was illegal in those days, after all, and they'd have got in lots of trouble if they got caught in public. That whole summer at an empty Brideshead, though, as Charles nursed Sebastian over his broken foot...
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Caliban3
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It was a metaphorical tree.
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Gordon Bennet
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What, was it representing the tree of forbidden knowledge? I think the tree was a 'genuine event', whereas the trip to the botanical gardens was more likely to be allegorical.
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Caliban3
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It was definitely phallic, at any rate. Big tree, open field, food and wine. They were consumating something.
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