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» One Touch Football - Archive » World Cup » Sick Italy Groupies (Page 12)

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Author Topic: Sick Italy Groupies
Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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Footballer trying to get rise of other footballers on the pitch shocker...I'm off to sell that story to The Sun...
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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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Just make sure you tell them its a dirty cheating foreigner, moitie...
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dalliance
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Oh and Linus, that attempt to connect Buffon and Fascism is beyond pathetic.
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E10Rifle
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I'm uneasy about the extent to which Materazzi's behaviour is being portrayed here as clever and cunning and legitimate. Behaving like a cunt anywhere is behaving like a cunt. Full stop. Headbutting people is particularly nasty, but insulting someone for whatever reason is scarcely decent. And it also begs the obvious question of what is and isn't "legitimate" to say to someone on the pitch. Is there like a sliding scale? Can you say "you're a bald twat" but not "you're a ragheaded terrorist cunt" or "your sister's a whore" or "I find terminal illnesses in your family amusing". I mean we have no way of knowing for definite whether Materazzi said any of these things, but presumably a line would need to come down somewhere when you're dealing with remarks like this.

So when would it stop being "canny and tactically clever" and start being unacceptable?

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Hieronymus Bosch
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Oh and Linus, that attempt to connect Buffon and Fascism is beyond pathetic.

There's plenty of evidence to suggest that Buffon has fascist political views. He once went around wearing a t-shirt that said "Death to those who surrender" (an old fascist slogan), there was all that business with the 88/HH squad number when he was at Parma, and he's on record as endorsing the anti-foreigner views of Umberto Bossi of the Northern League.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.

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Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan
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quote:
As I said after that save from Zidane, though, he's almost certainly my favourite fascist wanker in the world.
Your second favourite surely?

 -

(At least)

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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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An Italian, most probably holding fascist ideals close to his heart...

Actually Buffon choice of 88 was rather more prosaic, apparently it looked like 4 balls (as in testicles) and as such was a good symbol for the task he had ahead with Parma at the times...He is indeed a man with right-wing politics but they don't go much furhter than populist rightwingers a la Berlusconi. Those are the facts about what happend and the man. All the rest is speculation, most certainly the fact that he choose 88 as some kind of gesture of appreciation of Nazism.

The "Boia chi molla" t-shirt story has again seen Buffon being accused of supporting a neo-fascist but that sentence has appeared many times in grounds, be it in right-leaning curvas with all the political subtext attached to it you wish for but it also become popular because it sums up a state of mind than many football wish their player had, that is "never give up". Again on that one, Buffon alleged neo-fascist tendencies are nothing but speculation.

He is a pretty dumb guy, not a Di Canio who can make a coherent case of his ideas and is indeed a neo-fascist.

What can be attributed to Buffon was to be in agreement with Umberto Bossi that it would be good to see Italy win in 2002 as it might mean less foreign players coming into Serie A. Now if that is a fascist attitude, then that turns into fascist an awful lot of people who want to restrict foreign players in their domestic league...

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linus
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Janik, I don't think you've argued with me, as the term "argument" would, from my part at least, entail something beyond incoherent puerile posts.

Speaking of puerile concepts Dalliance, such as your "Throne of Wrongness", praising Materazzi's "flair" has clearly wrapped up your ascent to that kingdom.

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Janik
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linus, you are correct that your posts on this thread are incoherent and puerile. But if you knew this, why did you bother posting them?
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hobbes
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Dalliance, E10 has put it better than I could.
If it gets to the point where you're actually praising someone for being abusive or obnoxious to someone else, whether to gain an advantage or not, you really need to look seriously at your value system.
I know in the real world these things go on, but surely surely the default position on any form of gamesmanship (which you yourself called it some posts ago) should be condemnation rather than admiration? Surely we should be aiming to eradicate any form of gamesmanship from football and rather than accepting it and in your case there, encouraging it? Call me naieve but just like racism in the game(not that I'm accusing Matterazzi of this!) we may never eradicate it completely but we should at least try. After all, gamesmanship is merely a polite word for cheating.

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linus
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quote:
It's curious actually, this is like an argument coming from a xenophobic Englishman who thinks such strategies are just not cricket. Instead it seems to be in support of the French, many of whom play or have played and learned many of the tricks that Serie A teaches you.
The antipathy towards the tactics and unsportsmanlike style displayed by Italy is not a British concept, it is a universal concept as those lovers of the game who abhor the degree of cynicism and "anti-jeu" are hardly confined to the cricket clubs of England. Italy was booed by the neutrals in Berlin, particularly Materazzi.

Zidane hasn't seemed to have learned the "tricks that Serie A teaches you", else he would have retaliated with a cheap shot or an "unintentional" sharp elbow to the face and diligently feigned innocence after the assault. For all the flaws of his temper, he after all has a sense of honor and some decency.

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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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Do you really think that gamemanship is something that you can really get rid of in the world of football? Racism is a societal problem and fighting against it on the pitch goes on par with fighting it in society, gaining a competitive advantage within the context of a sport has been part of the package for times immemorial. There might have been a bunch of toffs who lived with the illusion that sport ought to be a gentlemanly hobby but that was a mere blip.

Gamemanship takes various shapes, some favour the theatrics of the dive, some favour the devious provocations, some favour harsh physical contact, but nearly all players of all race and religions have a trick up their sleeve and take advantage of it.

I watch Conference North football on occasion and if the diving is rather restricted (although present), the goading of the opponent and the vicious little tackle are a feature of the game. That's a semi-amateur league, with little at stake, imagine when it is your job and you evolve in that dog-eat-dog world...

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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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quote:
The antipathy towards the tactics and unsportsmanlike style displayed by Italy is not a British concept, it is a universal concept as those lovers of the game who abhor the degree of cynicism and "anti-jeu" are hardly confined to the cricket clubs of England. Italy was booed by the neutrals in Berlin, particularly Materazzi.
It is also a convenient cover to indulge in all sort of xenophobic comments about Italy and the Italian, the comments rarely rising above "Cheating greasy wops"...Italy was booed by the French fans who obviously thought that Zidane being sent off for headbutting did not warrant a red card. The Germans probably joined since their media had a campaign going against the Italians for the duration of the tournament and they blamed them for Frings suspension (nevermind he got caught on the camera punching an Argentine...).

quote:
Zidane hasn't seemed to have learned the "tricks that Serie A teaches you", else he would have retaliated with a cheap shot or an "unintentional" sharp elbow to the face and diligently feigned innocence after the assault. For all the flaws of his temper, he after all has a sense of honor and some decency.
Zidane must be wondering why his arse is tickling at the moment...
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dalliance
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quote:
If it gets to the point where you're actually praising someone for being abusive or obnoxious to someone else, whether to gain an advantage or not, you really need to look seriously at your value system.
I know in the real world these things go on, but surely surely the default position on any form of gamesmanship (which you yourself called it some posts ago) should be condemnation rather than admiration?

My value system would probably order contemporary blights on our game in the following order :

1. Two footed / over the ball challenges. Can potentially end a player's career if they connect. I have railed about these for years on here to no great wider interest.

2. Elbows. Very common this. We've seen in the past with Luis Enrique and Tab Ramos the damage that can be done and the skulls that can be fractured.

3. Feigning Injury in order to get a player sent off. Henry, Rivaldo and the rest. Can swing a game one way based upon an utter deception and cause an innocent player to be suspended.

4. Diving. A little like above. Can force an undeserved penalty or booking for an opponent which could have a major bearing on the outcome of a game.

5. Rudeness. This does no physical damage to a player, it does not bring tangible reward, it has no outcome on the game whatsoever, its sheer banality should be and usually is laughed off by the victim behaving in an adult way.

If I was a player and I had to be on the end of one of those elements of gamesmanship then I know which one I would choose. Is it ideal in the game, no. Would it be preferable if didn't happen, yes. Are we getting it out of all perspective, absolutely.

If we are happy to debate over hundreds of posts the more serious threats to the integrity of the game I have detailed above then after that I'll happily come back to this non-event, in the meantime my value system is perfectly fine where it is thank you very much.

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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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I'll go a bit further than Dalliance by saying that all form of non-contact gamemanship be it goading or diving (pun intended...) although most annoying are utterly harmless, no one is hurt but the pride of the victim.

I'll happily settle to have that preserved in the game if that meant the total eradication of all that "hard but fair" leg-breaking/knee crunching/head stamping bollocks...

I saw a number of players in my teams leave the pitch in agony because some donkey thought he was ok to go at it like a maniac and thinking I won't see that guy for 6 months, a year, never again. I've also seen players in my team fall fould of a dirty trick or retaliate when confronted by a dirty trick and by God did I curse the culprit but after the game, I knew player X will be back on the pitch the week after...

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