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» One Touch Football - Archive » World Cup » Sick Italy Groupies (Page 18)

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Author Topic: Sick Italy Groupies
HORN
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quote:
When England fans destroy chairs at major international tournaments, it's because they're being hurled at whoever's in the way.

When Italian fans destroy chairs at major international tournaments, it's because they're dancing a little too vigourously on them.

Further to this point:

When an England fan pukes up it's because he's drunk too much.

When an Italian fan pukes up it's because visiting supporters are seated in the tier below him.

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G-Man
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Surely your example reflects better on English miscreants than on Italian miscreants.
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Gangster Octopus
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Do you have a problem with that concept?
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HORN
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G-Man. It does.
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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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quote:
You wander around with this stuff on your brain?

I was giving a symposium paper on it yesterday morning.

Still, I think it's pretty apposite.

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ursus arctos
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So, was all of the discussion as to whether Zizou fit the paradigm?

The Gazzetta runs a "satirical" box by a well-known football-focused comic quite frequently.

Today's made the front page:

The three BIG questions:
1) Why did the dinosaurs become extinct?
2) Who killed Marilyn Monroe?
3) What did Materazzi say?

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Taylor
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I suppose I'm too late here to point this out, but...

linus, I hope you realise that EVEN IF it transpired that Materazzi said something racist to Zidane, you would still have been entirely wrong in assuming this all along. *Suspecting* would be one thing, *assuming* quite another.

If anyone can be bothered, I posted my thoughts on this matter on the "Zidone" thread. It'd be too shabby to cut and paste. In brief: Materazzi is not a nice man on the field, it's true. One of the worst, in fact. But there's a hell of a lot of projection going on here.

[ 13.07.2006, 20:26: Message edited by: Taylor ]

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Hieronymus Bosch
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Yes. At the risk of stating the complete fucking obvious, the one reason this is a big, global, front-page-headline deal is because one of the two protagonists is called Zinedine Zidane and not, say, Willy Sagnol or Florent Malouda.

People would rather jump through increasingly desperate hoops than accept that Zizou is a thuggish wanker.

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edie
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Do you believe that "winning at all costs" is an Italian thing?

I think this is the Vialli book's thesis (written by two Italians in England).

Does dalliance write for slate?

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hobbes
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Words cannot express how risible that article is.
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dalliance
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It was Machiavelli who is first credited with advancing the notion of the ends justifying the means, accordingly it is a philosophy that is deeply ingrained in the Italian mentality - football or otherwise.

In a footballing context Italy and Argentina are perhaps the two countries who are traditionally associated with ruthless pragmatism in the sport, no coincidence considering the huge Italian influence on Argentina over the past couple of hundred years.

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hobbes
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Dalliance! You just turned into Linus!
<insert winky face>

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dalliance
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Pah ! No need to be outstandingly rude....
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bryanattoni
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The dinosaurs insulted a visiting alien's mother.
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Wyatt Earp
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I dunno, you know, dalliance. Certainly Macchiavelli's thinking has been very influential in Italy (I think Gramsci, for example, once stated that he owed more to Macchiavelli than to Marx), bit (a) there have been other influences on Italian culture, and (b) it's quite wrong to see Macchiavelli as some sort of advocate of universal ruthlessness. You'd get that impression from The Prince, but have a look at the Discourses, where the full range of his thought is on view, and you'd be disabused, I reckon.

All this anti-Italianism (not talking about dalliance any more) is bothering me. I share it in a football context, but the wider stuff is nasty and unfair. (The football stuff may be nasty and unfair too, but it's only a game so it matters less.) Italy's flaws are well-known, but we're talking about a society with quite a large amount of ingrained decency. For example, despite the country's history of fascism, Italians behaved better towards Jews under the period of German occupation than just about anyone else other than the Danes (and arguably the Bulgarians). There was no Italian Drancy. People like Primo Levi moved straight back to Italy with no real qualms after the war--about how many European countries can that be said?

I half-expect Purves to weigh in at this point with his experiences at B---- di R---. If so, the answer is: "Yes, but they were bankers. You can't possibly generalise from bankers."

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