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Author Topic: Panorama
Jorge Porbillas
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Actually, I was slightly mesmerised by that "former" Everton hooligan (the one who suggested the limb-chopping solution).

That's Andy Nicholls - manager of Holywell Town in the Second Division (North) of the Welsh pyramid

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Jorge Porbillas
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He's banned from every ground in England and Wales - except when he's the opposition's manager
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ursus arctos
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That BBC photo proves that BDG's description of the man's face is spot on.

Does he have to leave his lips with the coppers on match days?

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Houdi Elbow
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All very depressing. I was in Germany for 2 weeks - not near where England were playing - and didn't see any violence at all. The worst was being told of a couple of lads singing 'Ten german Bombers' in Bamburg (bad enough). A friend was also at the Germany v Poland game (featured last night) and didn't witness any trouble.

The most cringeworthy parts of last nights programme were the physical and verbal assaults on women (those Brazilians looked understandably bewildered) and the presence of children.

It's probably repeating what has been said many times, but other nations fans were drinking heavily and a few were boorish (Aussies, Americans), but none become hostile and xenophobic in the same way as the English. I smiled to myself when reading the latest WSC as a photo of the England support featured a banner from a local pub that I'm afraid to visit.

On the subject of football banning orders, I was on a jury recently and the accused was subject to one. This had been imposed on account of streaking at a stadium and he appeared to have no interest in football. Basically he was a self destructive petty criminal who spent almost every penny on feeding his various addictions.

As for hoolies 'codes of conduct', it's no different from prisons where armed robbers see themselves as a cut above others.

[ 03.08.2006, 12:34: Message edited by: Houdi Elbow ]

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Nathan HelenaHandcart
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I can't get my head around the cockfarmers who pretend to be cyber-hoolies. Wanting to pretend to be sub-human scum is a strange thing. And I really can't see whatever pleasure can be derived from spending anytime there at all. They're cunts, and they regularly display their cuntishness in their posts, I presume.
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Big Dave's Gusset
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I can't get my head around the concept of cockfarmers.
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Cavalry Trouser Tips
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Those Huddersfield lads were fucking idiots.

One of them's dad is a copper. Beaming with pride no doubt.

It's usually the case with these things though isn't it? Hooligan's dad is either a policeman/magistrate/high court judge...

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garcia en dolor
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i saw one black england fan at the world cup - in dortmund after brazil-ghana. he was wearing a brazil shirt. i only realised he was english when i spoke to him. he wanted england to beat portugal but didn't expect they would.

obviously the england travelling fans are a bunch of stupid, boring, boorish, drunken pricks, but you all knew that. the whole concept of going on tour with england, drinking 20 beers with 70,000 shirtless large-bellied sunburned tattooed men in some foreign town square, jumping around in fountains and slapping each other's naked arses, only really appeals to that type of person.

there is a small but dedicated minority of decent blokes in there though, and never let anyone tell you otherwise. and there are plenty of england fans well able to engage with local culture. i met a guy at the beer garden near the chinese tower in munich, who claimed to own one of the biggest arsenal pubs near highbury. (i checked their site, he was telling the truth). he said he'd been to the first england game and was going to go to the one in nuremberg against trinidad, but then thought fuck it, i cannot handle being around all those fucking idiots again.

so instead he went on a camper van tour of south germany taking in all the brothels around lake constance. his favourite was the one where you paid 300 euros for 90 minutes with two japanese girls, but he said they were all pretty good. he became quite wistful as he talked about it. said he was considering selling the pub and moving to germany permanently. "pub trade's no fun any more... problem is these days they're all on that" [mimes snorting coke].

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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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Oh ITK is not a, ahem, PC place, that's for sure...Cyber hoolies are a strange bunch, mostly kids, fascinated by tales of violence and pictures of violence but I doubt the vast majority of them would indulge in any themselves (unless in a large pack, under the influence).

My own WTF thing is how chaps like those in that documentary think they are displaying their pride in their country, quite how you can equate acting the cunt abroad is supposed to reflect positively on your country is something I'm really struggling with...

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Nathan HelenaHandcart
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As is ultra nationalists doing a Sieg Heil salute. hey ho.

Seriously though MM, you're admitting that it's not a PC place, where people talk about fighting and look at pictures of the same. Why the fuck do you go there? Are you not fascintaed by that shit too?

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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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Not at all, I'm pretty cynical when it comes to violence around football but I don't have any fascination for it, I've been myself in situations where you either stood your ground or ran away (in football and in political protests) so I do not glamourise it at all. Except maybe when some coppers do get a taste of their own medicine but that's "personnal"...

However I like to keep informed, I have a great interest in all that goes in football fan culture and those kind of places are pretty useless when it comes to hard facts but good to get the gist of the "mood".

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How's The Bairn?
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"My own WTF thing is how chaps like those in that documentary think they are displaying their pride in their country"

Yeah, I've always found that these pricks follow the same philosophy as the idiot with the stick, who was busy throwing beer on a Brazil fan. He was ready to launch into this lad, but then clocked the camera and walked away. Later in the documentary, you see him trying to hit the camera, then argue with the camera crew, saying "all you're out here for is your story - you have no pride in your country, you're scum". As if their behaviour's the fault of the press.

I've spent a lot of time on here being shouted down because I argued that the problem was nowhere near what the press were purporting it to be. Now it seems to have gone about-face.

I wasn't shocked by the sight of kids on Daddy's shoulders, on the front line, because I've seen that at clubs. I'm just saddened.

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Nathan HelenaHandcart
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Point taken MM, but I don't consider hoolie wannabees to be part of fan culture, and so by saying that they're a spectrum of opinion, however boneheaded, does it not legitimise them in some way? The idea that I share genes with them is bad enough, not to mention sharing a culture.
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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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I'm afraid they are part of fan culture and have been for a long time. Think of them as the decadent cousin the family try to keep away from weddings and funerals...

I'm totally opposed to the idea that this is a specific football problem, those guys depicted in the documentary are more the product of a certain English environment rather than any specific English football environment. The Continental variety is slightly different as there is a further element of blokes creating their own "Fight Club" but that depends what country they are from.

However, I'm equally opposed to the idea that they don't care about the game. They do but whilst for you and I a game away to, say, Fiorentina would be a great chance to try the local cuisine and have a walk to check out the sights, they will favour congregating in some mock English pub and show their "pride". They are also there to support their team though. If some pond life hangs around football grounds looking for trouble and has no affinity with the game whatsover, those spending hundreds to travel don't do so only for the trouble they can cause.

Those blokes in the documentary warranted mockery not because they wanted to be violent but because they did so outside the codified confines of what hooligan think is their code of honour. Shouting abuse at women, attacking lone scarfers and mouthing to the cameras is not on. The fact that aside from those Polish or Russian nutters who meet up in frozen parks for a 20/20, that code is largely a myth and those who do indeed have that "mentality" are very few and far between is not a concern for most hoolies. They abide by it or like to pretend they do.

There are pages and pages to be written about mankind capacity for delusion and its endless needs for ceremonial, even when it's basically all about punching the living daylights of each other...

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Nathan HelenaHandcart
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I don't say that they don't care about the game, but that's not the issue; it's their way of caring about the game. Fuck em. Get the fuck out of football until you can enjoy it without being cunts.

I wouldn't invite my wanker uncle or cousin to my wedding, and I'm sick of these scum polluting the game, the atmosphere at matches, the trains before and afterwards. Fuck them and their appalling culture, which I have no wish to understand, and no desire to tolerate, and every hope dies a speedy death.

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