This board has been transferred to www.wsc.co.uk,

    why not join us there

One Touch Football - Archive   
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» One Touch Football - Archive » World Cup » Panorama (Page 3)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   
Author Topic: Panorama
Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
Member
Member # 19

 - posted      Profile for Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's not your wedding though, more like the wedding of a famous guy and the town has been invited...

As for the rest..."One day a rain will come..." <wink>

Posts: 16714 | From: Outskirts of Manchester | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Shallow Twat
Member
Member # 1633

 - posted      Profile for Shallow Twat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The English accounted for 11% of all arrests during the World Cup. In a 32 team tournament that's not on home soil, that's a fucking disgrace. And the Germans were talking about how the English were "the best fans in the world" during the tournament? Surely they must be laughing at us, almost encouraging such idiots to engage in such behaviour again.

I was just embarrassed to be English watching that last night. Not because of the fighting, but because it was just a case of ignorant people going out of their way to offend, and being proud of it. Just like the rest of the tournament, then. That picture of the QPR fans giving the Hitler salute was one of the most jaw shudderingly shameful picture I'm likely to see for a long time. Not because it was offensive, but because it was so fucking low-rent and thick.

There's been this element in football for about 30 years, and it's unlikely to go away.

Posts: 46 | From: far, far away | Registered: Aug 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Fausto Ptang
Member
Member # 1183

 - posted      Profile for Fausto Ptang     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The overwhelming feeling was one of depression. The moronic attitudes weren't surprising. What was mildly funny in a macabre sort of way was the Germans and Poles scrapping it out in what seemed to be an athletics stadium.
What I found sad was that these numbskulls were given a forum. You had that tit Evertonian speaking with authority on a subject as if in his head he was Melvyn Bragg. The bloke was a right thicko, so why does the Beeb give him such airtime. His limb-chopping comment was typical of the tainted and squinted world-view these people have. they boast and speak with such authority, but it's mostly bravado and BS.
Those Huddersfiled blokes talking about 1,000 Cardiff fans. 1,000! In his mind they arrived in amphibious landing craft. the tales were being swapped and the machismo and bull was tolerated and it was all so dull and highlighted the insecurities at the heart of most of these mens problems.
When the young Brazilian who was soaked and being threatened made the gesture to the big gang of bullies that they all had small willies. No doubt.

Posts: 3654 | From: Out West | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
bovril
Member
Member # 1436

 - posted      Profile for bovril     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These men are not going to go away. They may possibly stop watching football, but will just find another way to stamp their stupidness on "the enemy".
They are in every Wetherspoons, major holiday resorts and shopping centres.

Mr fucking England. How on earth did we create a character that revels in his own lack of education and civility?

It is not just the Panorama docu that depresses us, it is society's tolerance and (quite often) encouragement of these meat-heads.

I suppose that is a political and social issue though, and this is in the wrong forum.

[ 04.08.2006, 11:12: Message edited by: bovril ]

Posts: 409 | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ursus arctos
Member
Member # 1452

 - posted      Profile for ursus arctos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm just a somewhat interested foreigner, but doesn't the English mass media have a case to answer in this respect?

The tabs in particular seem to delight in instigating this very type of behaviour (i.e., Achtung Fritz, White Van Man, etc ad nauseum) and then reacting with shock horror when they are taken up on it (they do the same thing with public drunkeness). Add to that the not so cottage industry that is books and films about hoolie behaviour and it becomes a lot less difficult to understand where it comes from.

Moitie and others have mentioned this before, but there really isn't another country in Europe I can think of where "patriotism" takes anything like this form. The French can be snobs, the Germans can drive you crazy with their beach towels, etc., but the idea that you celebrate the inherent superiority of your country of origin by getting pissed and then pissing in fountains is really quite bizarre. I have gone on about how I detest the "USA, USA" chants we know get at national team games, but they seem quite benign by comparison.

Posts: 18670 | From: mediolanum | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
sitek
Member
Member # 1079

 - posted      Profile for sitek     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maybe I'm looking at it too simplistically, but you can take the boy out of his country but not the country out of the boy. What I mean is that all the behaviour I saw in Germany was no different to what I see at other times during the year. The Swiss fans I saw behaved exactly the way the Swiss always do when they go out; every time I go back to England, Friday and Saturday nights are hardly any different to what I saw in Nürnberg or Gelsenkirchen.
Posts: 876 | From: Fog on the Rhine | Registered: Dec 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
Member
Member # 19

 - posted      Profile for Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's not simplistic at all, it is simply true Sitek. Hence why I get annoyed when it is filed under "football problem".

Can we mention "post-Empire" issues without falling into pop-sociology...?

Posts: 16714 | From: Outskirts of Manchester | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ursus arctos
Member
Member # 1452

 - posted      Profile for ursus arctos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is essentially true when it comes to drinking, fighting, winding up the "other" and the like, but not necessarily when it comes to chanting Ingerlund and talking about the war. While I generally agree with Moitie (as usual), I would posit that that particular aspect does have a particular association with football.

And of course the whole thing has to be pop-sociology, as I would tend to doubt that any significant number of us have the training to engage in anything more rigorous in that regard.

So, let's take empire. Was the British Empire really that singular? A number of other European countries had colonies (with the scope of the French "empire" being particularly notable), the Americans and the Russians both have/had de facto empires, and yet we don't seem to see the same kind of behaviour from people from those countries.

Is the whole Rule Brittania thing really an attempt to return to a largely non-existent golden age where the people in question (or more accurately, their fathers and others they identify with) had more economic/social/political power than they do now? Or is it just c*nts responding to media clues as to how to express their c*ntishness? Or are the media clues themselves in part inspired by a perceived loss of power and not just a craven desire to sell papers?

I really don't have a clue what the "right" answer is, though I very strongly suspect that there a number of different forces at work.

Posts: 18670 | From: mediolanum | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
Member
Member # 19

 - posted      Profile for Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would add to the mix a more robust class system than in the rest of continental Europe, it has, I think, an effect on some people, making them very aware of their social status and more prone to act as they are expected to act.
Posts: 16714 | From: Outskirts of Manchester | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
cubillas
Member
Member # 145

 - posted      Profile for cubillas     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wouldn't it be fair to say that most Americans who would tend towards this type of insularity rarely travel out of county let alone out of state let alone out of country? Bigoted, ugly supremacists tend to stay at home in the States. Going on my experiences in Egypt last week, I reckon that boorish Russian behaviour is simply playing catch up and will be visiting a holiday destination near you before you can say "I am Igor and I come from fucking Kalingrad".
Posts: 733 | From: Wales | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ursus arctos
Member
Member # 1452

 - posted      Profile for ursus arctos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Only slightly over-egged, Cubillas.

People will travel out of state for things like college football games, NASCAR races and "concerts" in Branson, Missouri, but you are dead on about them not travelling "abroad" (which for some includes scary places like New York and San Francisco). Thus the success of ersatz experiences such as Busch Gardens and Epcot Center in Florida and more recently the Paris, Venice, Bellagio, etc casinos in Las Vegas (as an aside, I was recently in the real Belaggio and overheard one of my countrymen expressing disappointment that it didn't look like the casino).

You may well be right about the Russians. The ones I tend to come across here just throw around scads of money and drink.

Posts: 18670 | From: mediolanum | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
E10Rifle
Member
Member # 34

 - posted      Profile for E10Rifle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have some sympathy with MM's claim that hoolies, and faux-wannabe-hoolies, are - like it or lump it - a part of our footballing culture. And if we're honest, sometimes a hostile, bellowing crowd can add to the atmosphere at a game. It's not something I'm comfortable with but I think I can understand it.

But they're only a small part of an English footballing culture which, in lots of other ways, is varied and compelling.

The England football culture, as opposed to the English one, remains a hard one to love though, which I presume was the purpose of this doc (though I didn't see it myself). It does sound a necessary corrective to the Happy Face-painting Best Fans In The World narrative that dominated throughout the tournament, though it should be remembered that 15-20 years ago Fans Like Us would be complaining, rightly and strongly, about bad behaviour being exaggerated in the press, which it was and egged on in some cases by reports of tabloid hacks bunging people a few quid to put windows in. This climate nearly gave us ID cards.

As for Perryman the ex-Tankie, he's always come across as a bit of a chancer, as many who once dreamed of making a name for themselves through far-left politics can be. He's desperately trying to shoehorn his "Rainbow nation New In-ger-land" analysis into everything, and sometimes it just doesn't fit into the shape. As in his contention back in 98 that England fans didn't act the cunt in the France World Cup.

[ 06.08.2006, 15:08: Message edited by: E10Rifle ]

Posts: 12564 | From: The bus lane | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Duncan Gardner v8.2
Member
Member # 1425

 - posted      Profile for Duncan Gardner v8.2     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
The England football culture, as opposed to the English one, remains a hard one to love though
I like them both equally, though not without reservation; I think they are broadly the same. Only saw five minutes of the doc, admittedly.

Tens of thousands of fans go to watch England. A minority are boorish and a smaller group criminal, but I genuinely think it's changing for the better and more progress can be made.

Posts: 2818 | From: Marching through Georgia | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rob_afcb
Member
Member # 623

 - posted      Profile for Rob_afcb         Edit/Delete Post 
Have you finished yet? Why not stick to rugby union if the type of game you prefer is inhabited by the more classier fan? They probably say cunt a lot too.

[ 06.08.2006, 22:18: Message edited by: Rob_afcb ]

Posts: 233 | From: In All Departments | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
E10Rifle
Member
Member # 34

 - posted      Profile for E10Rifle     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Who said anything about "classiness"? That's not the issue - behaving with a modicum of consideration and sensitivity is.

I'm not gonna switch to rugby union because the game doesn't massively appeal, personally, and what I've seen of its fan culture appeals even less. The fan culture surrounding my football club, on the other hand, is as compellingly brilliant as it's ever been.

Posts: 12564 | From: The bus lane | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 5 pages: 1  2  3  4  5   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | WSC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2

    This board has been transferred to www.wsc.co.uk,

    why not join us there