This board has been transferred to www.wsc.co.uk,

    why not join us there

One Touch Football - Archive   
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» One Touch Football - Archive » Football » Dollarpool (Page 21)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 32 pages: 1  2  3  ...  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  ...  30  31  32   
Author Topic: Dollarpool
Antonio Gramsci
Member
Member # 11024

 - posted      Profile for Antonio Gramsci     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
You do a lot of work for US intelligence agencies, don't you, Beekes?
Posts: 1762 | From: the further reaches of sleep deprivation | Registered: Sep 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hieronymus Bosch
Member
Member # 1209

 - posted      Profile for Hieronymus Bosch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Urs, I know we've done this before but isnt 15% pretty close to what Red Issue claim ManU are paying at the moment?

I am open to correction but I'm pretty sure I remember reading that the Man United figure was around the 16 per cent mark.

Posts: 20007 | From: Terrestrial Paradise | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ursus arctos
Member
Member # 1452

 - posted      Profile for ursus arctos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The initial Man Utd loan was relatively short term, unsecured finance from a haedge fund. The Liverpool is from a syndicate of banks, and seems at least partially secured by the letters of credit and guarantees. It would therefore bear interest at a lower rate.
Posts: 18670 | From: mediolanum | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Spock na Escada
Member
Member # 47

 - posted      Profile for Spock na Escada     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Wonder what the time limit on Liverpool going ahead with the Stanly Park stadium is? If they don't start construction within a certain time frame does the permission to build lapse? And if they start and then stop what happens?
Sounds like there's a huge risk of the classic Turkish construction stand-off where unscrupulous developers get permission to build on public land without proper funding, build the foundations and then demand that the state help them out rather than see the site rot unfinished.

Posts: 12057 | From: The pape's second home | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ursus arctos
Member
Member # 1452

 - posted      Profile for ursus arctos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It does sound as if they intend to break ground without having the financing to complete construction in place, which strikes me as unusual for such a high profile project.
Posts: 18670 | From: mediolanum | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Spock na Escada
Member
Member # 47

 - posted      Profile for Spock na Escada     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Unusual, or desperate?

If, as we keep hearing warnings of the possible risk of, there is a major credit squeeze just around the corner, Gillet and Hicks are going to get absolutely canned.
In Turkey when the finance dries up the developers have traditionally been obliged to take soft loans from state banks rumoured to be substantially higher than the actual construction cost, and dependent on the support of political incumbents.
The UK doesn't have state banks, but it'll be interesting to see how fast the Liverpool Labourocracy moves to secure whatever soft credit is available for big development projects.
The stench of rats was apparent when they were gifted the Stanly Park site, and the smell of their as yet unborn great grandchildren is already heavy on the Mersey breeze.

Posts: 12057 | From: The pape's second home | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rogin the Armchair fan
Member
Member # 683

 - posted      Profile for Rogin the Armchair fan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Spock, I can appreciate your unbridled glee at the thought of Liverpool becoming the next Leeds United, but it's as likely to be the other way round, isn't it? All indications are that borrowing rates are going to fall , dramatically, in 2008 ( because banks are going to be in the shit and will struggle to attract new business) so maybe Glazer and Hicks have put back their borrowing requirement on advice that they can do it twelve months later at a rate 1 or 2 per cent lower than they'd have to commit to now?

As I said above, I neither understand nor have any experience of business finance at this level.

[ 20.12.2007, 23:53: Message edited by: Rogin the Armchair fan ]

Posts: 15858 | From: this corner of the bar you can only see half of the big screen | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Spock na Escada
Member
Member # 47

 - posted      Profile for Spock na Escada     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
so maybe Glazer and Hicks have put back their borrowing requirement

Brothers and sisters, the mists are parting...

Posts: 12057 | From: The pape's second home | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hieronymus Bosch
Member
Member # 1209

 - posted      Profile for Hieronymus Bosch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If, as we keep hearing warnings of the possible risk of, there is a major credit squeeze just around the corner

The stuff I've been editing lately for the financial pages says that it's already begun.

What it all means

Posts: 20007 | From: Terrestrial Paradise | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
noj
Member
Member # 753

 - posted      Profile for noj     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Wonder what the time limit on Liverpool going ahead with the Stanly Park stadium is? If they don't start construction within a certain time frame does the permission to build lapse? And if they start and then stop what happens?

Most planning permissions have a three year life on them, although as suggested, it wouldn't take much for Liverpool to 'start' the works (say, by installing the drainage system) and then the permission would be deemed to be implemented.
Posts: 2740 | From: crisp country | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Paxton Sprout
Member
Member # 2169

 - posted      Profile for Paxton Sprout     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would expect this planning permission to have a five year life due to the scale of the development. Liverpool can make a 'material' start to the works or it should be pretty easy to renew in five years time unless a planning issue comes to light that Liverpool City Council can use to justify refusing renewal of consent.
Posts: 497 | From: where I'm standing behind the goal that was clearly offside | Registered: Dec 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hieronymus Bosch
Member
Member # 1209

 - posted      Profile for Hieronymus Bosch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
This one just gets weirder and weirder
Posts: 20007 | From: Terrestrial Paradise | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
die grosse linke Hand
Member
Member # 1437

 - posted      Profile for die grosse linke Hand     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
Spock, I can appreciate your unbridled glee at the thought of Liverpool becoming the next Leeds United, but it's as likely to be the other way round, isn't it? All indications are that borrowing rates are going to fall , dramatically, in 2008 ( because banks are going to be in the shit and will struggle to attract new business) so maybe Glazer and Hicks have put back their borrowing requirement on advice that they can do it twelve months later at a rate 1 or 2 per cent lower than they'd have to commit to now?
Rogin - everything that you say above is right, but you miss the key point that causes the problem.

Borrowing rates are based off LIBOR rates in the market, and also from the credit spread of the borrower (the charge above that to a non-perfect borrower).

While base rates have gone down, short term interest rates have been spiking heavily and in varied ways from the rates that the central banks can control. Also, the spike in credit spreads is getting worse and worse. So, for a company in exactly the same condition as it was at the start of the year, they will be asked for probably a full 1% higher margin on rates than they were asked at the start of the year.

Whether the moves by the central banks to cut rates have made it that the cost of borrowing is less, more or about the same is a moot point. I would take a guess that, as things stand, it costs more at the moment, despite the core interest rate falling - the credit spreads have moved so heavily. And contrary to what many expect, it got worse in October/November than in the summer.

Posts: 3418 | From: Gotham | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
ursus arctos
Member
Member # 1452

 - posted      Profile for ursus arctos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
They still haven't refinanced the debt.

quote:
Liverpool FC could change hands for the second time in a year as their American owners encounter difficulties in refinancing 350million of debt incurred in taking over and running the club.

Beset by the steeply rising costs of a new stadium and manager Rafa Benitez's demands for new players, Tom Hicks and George Gillett Jr have been attempting to transfer the debt, for which they are personally liable, on to the club itself. City sources believe this is an extremely difficult task to complete before the loan's due date at the end of February.

It is possible that the Americans will meet the deadline, but if not an Arab investment group, Dubai International Capital, is understood to be close to lodging an offer to buy out the American pair, probably for about 500m. Takeover discussions are thought to be due before the end of this month.


If I supported Liverpool, I would hope that the DIC bid succeeds, though I would be pissed off that Hicks and Gillet would each walk away with a 75 million quid profit based on current valuations. In this climate, one has every reason to believe that the Arabs would be the more stable long-term owners.
Posts: 18670 | From: mediolanum | Registered: Jan 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Rogin the Armchair fan
Member
Member # 683

 - posted      Profile for Rogin the Armchair fan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It doesn't make any sense whatsoever that the club's value would have shot up by 150m in the space of six months, while UEFA are limiting the opportunities for future Champions' League places to the English sides, and the team themselves couldn't knock over a coconut shy.

I know people love to assume that the wealthy Arabs have got more money than sense, but I don't believe that for one minute.

Posts: 15858 | From: this corner of the bar you can only see half of the big screen | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 32 pages: 1  2  3  ...  18  19  20  21  22  23  24  ...  30  31  32   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | WSC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2

    This board has been transferred to www.wsc.co.uk,

    why not join us there