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Author Topic: Ronaldo
The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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yeah, ursus, how can you come to an accurate judgement when it's slowed down and close up so you can actually see what's happening?

FFS.

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ursus arctos
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aiatl, people have been analysing penalty awards on the basis of replays since slow motion was invented. It can be a useful tool, and one that you have been known to use yourself when it serves your purpose.

I stick by my original statement. I think it is a borderline penalty. I may well of given it, and wouldn't criticise the ref for being completely blind or bent if he had. Nor would I do so with respect to the decision he made. That's why it was borderline.

That said, I certainly would have given CRonaldo a yellow for bad acting when it came to the prayerful pleading. Europe-wide embarrassment is not sufficient sanction.

I think the much more interesting point is the "third way" suggested above (though the idea is dead in the water with that moniker).

The problem that refs have at the moment is that they feel compelled to award either a penalty or a yellow in that kind of situation, with the result that a judgmement that could well be 51/49 or 55/45 in their minds is translated into a decision that is 100/0 on the field. That strikes me as clearly sub-optimal. If the refs were told that they could award both a yellow and a penalty, I think the game would be better off.

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and I am the life
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yeah, ursus, how can you come to an accurate judgement when it's slowed down and close up so you can actually see what's happening?

FFS.


you're more ignorant than the hairs on the back of my bollocks that have never seen anything but shite toro.

I don't think that the ref is bent, but he did make a terrible mistake. He was looking right at that, but then again it did happen very quickly,k but there is no way on earth that he can have been sufficiently sure to give a booking. shame you can't appeal yellow cards however.

that talk of awarding a penalty and a booking is bizarre. either it is a foul or it isn't. and if it is a penalty, how do you justify booking the player who was fouled?

Defenders can be pretty cynical, take for instance the case of ricardo carvalho who will never make a clean tackle, when he can tack on a foul as well. If he's tugged your jersey to prevent you from getting on a rebound, how do you attract the referee's attention? You stick your hands out and fall down, you get a penalty. if you don't do that the ref will not think it is sufficiently important.

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Harry Carpenter
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quote:
that talk of awarding a penalty and a booking is bizarre. either it is a foul or it isn't. and if it is a penalty, how do you justify booking the player who was fouled?
Isn't it the same as penalising a player for a foul and then booking the victim of the foul if he retaliates. In that case the player retaliating is deemed to be over-stepping the mark in his reaction to the foul and in the case being discussed the player is diving to (to put it charitably) "draw attention" to the foul? Both are (for want of a better term) seen to be taking the law (of the game) in to their own hands.

The Lille Ronaldo incident above reminded me of the penalty Michael Owen "earned" against Argentina in the 2002 WC though I can't find it on youtube to check my recollection.

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Mark Felt
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Have to say, I'm with aIatl here. It is NOT clear whether the defender tried to pull out of the tackle or not, but it is perfectly clear that he struck Ronaldo's leg. I don't even think it is one of those situations where Ronaldo "drew" the penalty but could have stepped over it; his leg was held back, and while he might not have fallen, he had definitely lost control of the ball. Not borderline at all.

It's nice and sunny here Ursus, is it sleeting purple slush puppy chez vous?

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ursus arctos
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Nah, though it has gotten colder.

Harry has used the exact example I was going to use.

If the conversation about the CRonaldo incident had begun with Mark's description instead of the ridiculous scything tackle, I think it might have gone differently. No one has questioned whether there was contact.

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Rogin the Armchair fan
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quote:
I feel like father ted trying to explain perspective to dougal.

So does everyone else on this thread. All those youtube clips demonstrate is that Ronaldo has danced into the area, invited a challenge, cleverly clipped the ball away yards from where it was (which must in itself invite an interpretation on the laws about whether a player is in control of the ball or not) before falling theatrically over the flailing leg of the defender. For fuck's sake, in the clips you've posted of the one aganist Lille, he's that distressed by the violent and unexpected challenge that he's already flipped round in mid-air (even in normal, not slow, motion) to remonstrate with the referee before he's even bounced off the ground.
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Don Malhumorado
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none of which means he dived, of course.
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Rogin the Armchair fan
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I hope Gemma Atkinson does the decent thing and gives him the clap.
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Mark Felt
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Seriously, Rogin, I hate divers, and I really hate CRonaldo due largely to his resemblance to a smug and obnoxious (oxymoronic) mate of mine, but that was a very clear penalty.
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G-Man
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CRonaldo has hair and is slight, not bald and big, Mark. Or do you mean another friend?
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Oadlad
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Having witnessed the magic of George Best he would never lower himself to the 'fall if touched' tricks of today's flawed wonder boy...
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Pietro Paolo Virdis
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Can't we invite Oliver Stone and Kevin Costner to see if they would want to use this material about the penalty somehow? Thereís almost enough here for a feature. Keep it going and weíll have something that just might top JFK

Gonzo could contribute to another David Ferrie (Joe Pesciís) part
AIATL is obviously what Kevinís Jim Garrison was, with the magic bullet equivalent moment about to appear any minute now.
stefan is onto something, we might just get our own classic Donald Sutherland performance

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Mighty Mudhsuden
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quote:
I hope Gemma Atkinson does the decent thing and gives him the clap.
They're not together now. It said in one of my wife's magazines.
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and I am the life
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No one has questioned whether there was contact.

yes they did. Garcia for a start.

The last time I used a scythe, I made circular sweeping motions parallel to the ground, causing the long grass to fall over the cutting blade of the scythe. how would you use a scythe? and what would you describe as a scything tackle then?

And I'd go along with Mark felt. He didn't go looking for that penalty, it came looking for him.

Ronaldo has danced into the area, invited a challenge, cleverly clipped the ball away yards from where it was (which must in itself invite an interpretation on the laws about whether a player is in control of the ball or not)

eh? he knocked the ball out at an angle and would still have had it under control if he wasn't kicked in the shin. but control of the ball is a moot point, kicking a player in the penalty box is still a penalty. actually knocking the ball out at that angle probably convinced the ref that the defender got the ball.

Still though he had a better night than last year when he took two elbows to the face in the space of a minute.

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