This board has been transferred to www.wsc.co.uk,

    why not join us there

One Touch Football - Archive   
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» One Touch Football - Archive » Football » Martin O'Niel Genius or Fraud (Page 8)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 12 pages: 1  2  3  ...  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12   
Author Topic: Martin O'Niel Genius or Fraud
Bored Of The Dance
Member
Member # 6347

 - posted      Profile for Bored Of The Dance     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
How much of a "big" job is the Villa one, in reality, too?
I think, bigger than his previous really but that's it. Previous to the new money, it could be argued that Celtic were a similar size but, now, Villa could be seen as bigger, certainly in potential
Posts: 3647 | From: the desk of the Chairman | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
and I am the life
Member
Member # 227

 - posted      Profile for and I am the life     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Villa weren't going to be turned into a champions league team overnight. Not after what davo did to them. I'd give O'Neill 3 seasons to get them up and running. There's an awful feeling of depression and misery around villa park and he has to overcome that as well as build a team.
Posts: 19996 | From: the crespo of a wave | Registered: Jun 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan
Member
Member # 39

 - posted      Profile for Peter O'Hanraha-hanrahan     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
But PD, that was your argument - the general public think these things that you disagree with, therefore...

If you're forming opinions merely as a knee-jerk reaction to others', then you're going to be just as wrong, if not more so.

We can see the poor basis for these opinions in the quality of the arguments - Hof has already dealt with your Beckham example to some extent, but it's worth analysing a little further as it's such an old favourite: picking a player who's doing well, waiting (however long) for them to slip up, and then going "Ah! I said he was rubbish before any of you did" - to which Hof had the perfect response. It's bet-hedging disguised as analysis. The problem seems to be a sort of rockist approach to football - you don't just want to be right, you want to be right while everyone else is wrong, you want to have been right before anyone else. But in attempting this, you just end up going on massive flights of fancy and being more wrong than anyone. And you back these things up with the same tricks, which cumulatively make quite a convincing case, but it's just not good enough.

Sorry to go into meta-discussion, everyone, but I think it's worth saying (Obviously it's not just about PD).

Posts: 10341 | From: London Overground | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Otto Katz
Member
Member # 15

 - posted      Profile for Otto Katz     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Ooh, Hamann is in fine form on this thread. Some excellent posts there.

I love Martin O'Neill. And I'm as relieved he didn't get the England job as I was disappointed he didn't choose Newcastle.

Posts: 2909 | From: the examining of the entrails of sacrificial geese | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wyatt Earp
Member
Member # 108

 - posted      Profile for Wyatt Earp     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What Otto said.
Posts: 19927 | From: the Cryptic Cabal | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bored Of The Dance
Member
Member # 6347

 - posted      Profile for Bored Of The Dance     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
While it's true what Hamman is saying, let's keep in perspective that Beckham was over-rated as are the England football team
Posts: 3647 | From: the desk of the Chairman | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Duncan Gardner v8.2
Member
Member # 1425

 - posted      Profile for Duncan Gardner v8.2     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Sprig is a good, consistent manager. I am sure he'll establish the Villa as the top team in the Midlands this term.

Having missed out on the ManU job, I see him winding down his career with an underachieving foreign international side.

Posts: 2818 | From: Marching through Georgia | Registered: Dec 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Gonzo
Member
Member # 1592

 - posted      Profile for Gonzo         Edit/Delete Post 
To be fair there's not much competition in The Midlands;though yes, can see him being a long-term successor to Stan!
Posts: 2962 | From: The Pale, Erin | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Bored Of The Dance
Member
Member # 6347

 - posted      Profile for Bored Of The Dance     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think he meant England.

Hold on, under-achieving and over-rated? Even I can't work that out

Posts: 3647 | From: the desk of the Chairman | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mr smith
Member
Member # 1345

 - posted      Profile for mr smith     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Great Player. The most Clough like player of all.
I still beleive if he had taken over when Brian retired that Forest would'nt be were they are today, but of course he changed his mind to stay with bloody wycombe.

Posts: 228 | From: Nottingham | Registered: Oct 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Oadlad
Member
Member # 1613

 - posted      Profile for Oadlad     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
MON is the master of extracting the best out of his resources.
He has inherited a Premiership also ran with zero expectations and ambition. This is important when trying to recruit quality now he has a rich owner for a change. Players have the same view as fans and ask twice before signing up.
Rest assured Martin will get it right once he has shaken off these burdens. He will make AV the giant of the midlands, a mantle they have failed to grasp for most of my life.
It's not surprising a Villa fan doesn't like him because Leicester took our easiest points of the the season off them for three or four years,and we spent two bob on players.

Posts: 157 | From: Leicester UK | Registered: Jul 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
mats balja arvidsson
Member
Member # 1253

 - posted      Profile for mats balja arvidsson     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Of course words like "fraud" and "genius" should be used with more care, but not only those:

If o'Neill was a "great" player, what were, say, John Robertson or Trevor Francis? "Cosmo-ubergalactic" or something?

And if O'N is a "great" manager, based on what he has done so far, then he term "genius" would need to be used for at least a dozen managers I can think of, and we would have to invent a whole new language to describe Clough or Busby.

How about we stick with "able" until further notice, ok?

Posts: 511 | From: the cold bench | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Wyatt Earp
Member
Member # 108

 - posted      Profile for Wyatt Earp     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
"Martin O'Neill: really quite able or only somewhat able?"

Not gonna whip in the OTF punters, is it?

Posts: 19927 | From: the Cryptic Cabal | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The cantering captain
Member
Member # 942

 - posted      Profile for The cantering captain     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
f o'Neill was a "great" player, what were, say, John Robertson or Trevor Francis? "Cosmo-ubergalactic" or something?

I think mr smith is entitled to describe one of the players who won the European cup for his team as great.

Posts: 1476 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Hieronymus Bosch
Member
Member # 1209

 - posted      Profile for Hieronymus Bosch     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Obviously O'Neill was not a "great player" in the same sense as Zico or Platini, but he was one in the more colloquial sense of the term, i.e. he could pass the ball very well and he was an extremely handy player to have on your team.

He played superbly for Northern Ireland in Espana 82 against good teams like France, Spain and Yugoslavia.

[ 30.08.2007, 12:38: Message edited by: Michael 'The Stroke' Fahy ]

Posts: 20007 | From: Terrestrial Paradise | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 12 pages: 1  2  3  ...  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | WSC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2

    This board has been transferred to www.wsc.co.uk,

    why not join us there