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» One Touch Football - Archive » Football » Man Utd vs Liverpool (Page 21)

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Author Topic: Man Utd vs Liverpool
G-Man
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What overreaction? Can we get it clear that a referee need not accept being told to fuck off by a bunch of moronic millionaire kids. If these players behaved like they do on the pitch off it, they'd probably all run around with black eyes and broken noses.

The question really is why referees accept that kind of abuse. An overreaction would be if they pulled out not a bit of coloured plastic, but a gun and shoot the player who has just told him to fuck off. Not booking an abusive player seems to be an underreaction.

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Hieronymus Bosch
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Toro thinks this episode is an outrage because it affects Liverpool. No other reason.

[ 25.03.2008, 15:55: Message edited by: Hieronymus Bosch ]

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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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With respect, HB, that is total and utter bollocks, and you have givcen not a shred of evidence for the repeated assertion.

In any case, even if it were true, it wouldn't make any difference to the merits (or otherwise) of my case. It's just an irrelevant swipe.

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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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quote:
An overreaction would be if they pulled out not a bit of coloured plastic, but a gun and shoot the player who has just told him to fuck off.
Er, that's like saying "stabbing Stephen Lawrence isn't murder, killing six million jews is murder."
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Don Malhumorado
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No it isn't.
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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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He's saying "X isn't Y, because Z is an even more egregous example of Y". It's clearly fallacious.
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Don Malhumorado
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Nah.
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Hieronymus Bosch
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It's not bollocks. A Liverpool player gets a red card for repeatedly and blatantly acting like a total prick, and you have subsequently tied yourself in all kinds of knots to try to shift the blame onto the referee instead of the man who was actually responsible.

You'd be better off asking yourself why Rafa Benitez has had eight attempts to land a glove on Man United in the league and failed to do it every single time, or why it is now the best part of seven years since Steven Gerrard had a good game against that same team.

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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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quote:
You'd be better off asking yourself why Rafa Benitez has had eight attempts to land a glove on Man United in the league and failed to do it every single time, or why it is now the best part of seven years since Steven Gerrard had a good game against that same team.
Why? How would doing that be relevant to any point that I've actually made?

And if I'm so one-eyed pro-Liverpool in all of this, how come I seem to think the Ferdinand card was far harsher than most Man Utd fans?

Nothing I've said at any point in my criticism of Bennett has rested on my being a Liverpool fan. And even if it did, it would neither strengthen nor weaken my criticisms.

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Dr. Hofzinser
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With respect, Toro, you are all over the place on this thread.

Your case seems to be that Bennet over-reacted somewhat (although it seemed to be a much stronger claim earlier in the thread, since when you look to have backtracked a bit). But for this to be the case, his actions would have to either be in some way disproportionate in relation to the offence committed, or out of the ordinary with regards to normal refereeing standards.

But both of these things have been shown to be untrue by numerous posters (indeed, with regards to the former, you yourself have admitted that Mascherano's behaviour was unacceptable) and you don't appear to have offered any evidence at all to the contrary.

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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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Well firstly, that sounds like a pretty coherent position you're describing. I won't quibble with it, but I can't see how it amounts to being "all over the place".

Secondly, how have they been shown to be untrue? I said that Mascherano's behaviour was moronic, but that doesn't mean I thought that card was reasonable. Let alone his previous one, the one for Torres, or the one for Ferdinand. Now, numerous posters have pointed to individual cases of players being cautioned for serious dissent. But to sustain the case that Bennett's refereeing was proportionate, they would have to show examples of three or four cards for dissent being issued in a single game. Nobody has done so.

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statto99
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Ah, well. Why didn't you say so when I asked what you'd accept? I'm up for trying that. But it'll have to wait until later or tomorrow unless somebody else fancies taking it up in the meantime.
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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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Er, this was my answer to your query;

quote:
Jesus. Evidence that it was incorrect. Evidence that it was routine for referees to hand out three or four cards to players, including to people who have just been fouled, or have made what looks like being a clearance. That isn't an invitation to argue the merits of those cards, by the way.

Can you not read, or something? You even quoted and answered the other part of the same post, so I'm guessing it was wilful evasion.
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NotThatDuncan
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I think this is pretty much the poster child for persistent dissent. And they didn't even include all of the bitching from Mascherano.

Of course it's unusual to get a second yellow card for dissent. It's actually quite rare. But this doesn't mean Mascherano is some sort of freakish exception, just that players with a minimum om sense will tend to shut up after their first yellow.

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statto99
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Actually, here's a couple to start us off. The first comes from February this year:

quote:
There were seven United bookings for a variety of offences although those for Ronaldo and Edwin Van der Sar (both dissent) and Rooney (diving) were spot on.
Spurs 1 Man U 1, February 2008

Only two, I'll grant you, but very recent and a third yellow for diving thrown in for good measure.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/premiership/article3400274.ece

And here's another:

quote:
But a blistering match was marred by repeated scenes of dissent from Manchester United players that earned yellow cards for Keane, Jaap Stam and Andy Cole.
Newcastle 3 Man U 0, February 2000

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/football/fa_carling_premiership/640508.stm

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