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» One Touch Football - Archive » Music » It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) (Page 10)

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Author Topic: It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
The Horse
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quote:
You know, when he suggested Darkus Howe was a "cocoa shunter" you'd have every right to take Morris up for using an obviously homophobic insult which might even be percieved to have racist connotations when delivered to a black man he knows isn’t going to recognise the term (is it me, or can you can see Howe considering what the "cocoa" in that bizarre insult could mean, before he gives up and asks?). Now, "cocoa shunter" is a ridiculous insult he’s just invented, and as such makes me laugh, same as it would anyone who knows anything about his work. But had it been reported in the press and found to be offensive by some guy over there who’s not familiar with Chris Morris, you’d have a hard time defending it.
Maybe, but not only is "cocoa shunter" funny, which is one up on "I hope he dies" straight away, but it's quite clearly a key part of a joke. Howe is so dopey and inert that he'll allow Morris to call him a "trenchant buffoon" who "looks ridiculous in that fashionwear", going on and on without interruption. Only a bizarre slur that might be racist/homophobic wakes him from the yet-another-discussion-show, in-it-for-the-money stupor that Morris is satirising. "Cocoa shunter" is unfortunate but essential.

quote:
On the Paedo Special, when he’s talking about the kid “with a nice pink arse and no hair on his balls” he’s not directly satirising the way news programmes report paedophilia; it’s an oblique volley [if you will] of disgust at the fact there’s a man in the telly talking to you, and who the fuck does he think he is anyway.
Surely that's satirising the way the media both demonises paedophiles and sexualises children.

quote:
To avoid any confusion: I’m not drawing a direct comparison between the specifics of the Nicky Wire situation and the specifics of those sketches; they’re just examples of Morris brainwrongs that have no satirical subtext, but which in context operate as a brain-activating jolt to the viewer by confounding their expectations.
I think the specifics are important. A jolt is all the Wire comment is.

quote:
And Wire's outburst caused a similar disruption in service in the small-scale media that reported it. The music press-reading brain, used to earnest tributes and the privileging of pop stars above mortals, would be prepared to receive news that a shirtless James Dean Bradfield of glam rock band the Manic Street Preachers had bellowed (in his Mercurial voice) "THIS ONE'S FOR FREDDIE!" to a baying crowd. Instead , they got their fucking stick insect of a bassist, pictured (from memory) in a pink satin shirt covered in images of Marilyn Monroe, with eyeliner smeared all over his face underneath his 70s glam/punk feathercut, seething in his campy onstage voice "I hope that cunt Stipe pegs it too."
This just boils down to "gratuitous controversy", as far as I can see. Witless vitriol is still witless vitriol no matter how glamorously attired one is.
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Not me
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OK, I'll grant you the Morris stuff. What we fundamentally disagree on is the value of that jolt, in itself, in the context of the smug and ire-less culture in which it played out: I think it can be a satisfying and thought-provoking intrusion. One man's witless vitriol is another's gloriously unreasonable ejaculation, I guess.
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TV's 'Mr P'
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quote:
This just boils down to "gratuitous controversy", as far as I can see.
At last. The comment had no context, was cheap, crass and was thus perhaps in keeping with what the MSPs thought they were 'about' at the time.

For the record - despite NM's quite nicely-crafted line back there - I don't merely roll my eyes when bands/singers pull this kind of stunt. If I find what they're doing original, or (as opposed to this instance) witty, then I'm listening (for example, I loved The J&MC and all their nonsense back in early 1985). I just didn't buy what the Manics were doing in 1991 - all the agitation/sloganeering seemed to disappear on the few occasions I saw them interviewed as a young band, with just the odd neolithic grunt replacing all this hotly-anticipated opinion - which made me dismiss them at the time (perhaps ultimately wrongly) as just a front for some second division 'McLaren' figure. Once The Manics went 'rawk' five years later, I felt it was more honest, somehow - slogans and all...

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Bored Of The Dance
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The reason that "The Holy Bible" is their best album is that, probably due to Richey's troubles, it is their most, for the want of a better world, 'authentic' album. I dismissed them at first but 'got' them when I saw them in Newport during "Gold Against The Soul" but still thought of them as no more than a bnad that had produced some excellent singles and live performances.

"The Holy Bible" changed that by being an almost-perfect album and the shows at that time seemed genuinely charged and unpredictable.

The equipment-smashing at their final Astoria show seemed genuinely borne out of frustration and anger which contrasted amazingly with the faux-Clash trashing they did at the Camden Falcon when I first saw them.

It seems a bit "revelling in other people's misery" to be saying their best period was when they were suffering so personally as a band but that was the way it seemed

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Pants
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'The Holy Bible' is mediocre and way too contrived. Their first album is far and away their best.

I'm sorry L, I'd dearly love to agree with you on this, but I'm afraid The Horse is right. Even at the time, on the night, as a total Manics freak, I thought that Wire's comment was well off. I saw what he was trying to do, but it just seemed so half-arsed and half-thought-through and, like TVMP says, without context. When you contrast it with Richey's '4REAL' incident - which I honestly think is the most profound gesture ever made by a member of a rock 'n' roll band - it seems even lamer. Of course, Wire ain't perfect, has never claimed to be, but his genius: idiocy ratio is easily 98:2.

[ 24.03.2008, 16:31: Message edited by: Pants ]

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Not me
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Well, I've outlined the context I see it as being presented in upthread. I don't want to talk it up as being a significant or momentous occasion, I just thought it was pretty good (and harmless) given all that.

My Manics records have been sealed in a box for a decade or so now, and I always have mixed feelings about them: they really didn't have it going on musically, but they were an incredible thing to be into at the time, for scores of reasons. And I agree with Ant about the debut being their best album.

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Not me
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Oh, and no mockery intended TVMP. I wonder whether if I'd been five years older or younger I would have been into them at all.
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TV's 'Mr P'
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No, I thought your comment was very amusing, NM - mocking or otherwise. My point, though, is more that I'm not sure it is an age thing: personally, I just wasn't convinced by the Manics' stance at that stage (for the reasons I suggested at 15.07). And tedious, unoriginal 'shock' remarks like Wire's in that instance did little to change my opinion about them.
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Hieronymus Bosch
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The Holy Bible, as a piece of music, is near-unlistenable. The lyrics sheet (which, of course, was readily available for free as a double-page advert in the music press at the time) is about all it has going for it.
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Pants
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Fair enough, L.

What did you make of the '4REAL' incident, TVMP?

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Bored Of The Dance
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I am surprised if I am the only who has "The Holy Bible" as his favourite Manics album (or, indeed, one of his favourite albums of all time).

As far as age is concerned, I still listen to it as much now as I did when it came out and the lyrics are actually more relavent to me.

I also liked "Everything Must Go" when it came out but, like the others, isn't exactly regular listening now.

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Spearmint Rhino
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quote:
but still thought of them as no more than a bnad that had produced some excellent singles and live performances.
What more do you want from a rock'n'roll band? A cure for cancer?
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Spearmint Rhino
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quote:
'The Holy Bible' is mediocre and way too contrived. Their first album is far and away their best.
This goes neck-and-neck with Hobbes' "Hot cross buns are rubbish" as Wrongest Thing Written On OTF This Month.
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Spearmint Rhino
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Anyway, I went to see R.E.M. last night, and they were pretty good. The funny little shaven monkey who sings for them didn't say a word about Nicky Wire, though.
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mark e
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back to the Closet thing.
I took my son for a haircut on Saturday, and there was an old Q magazine - Oct 2007.
In it Michael and Rufus Wainwright have a chat about the art of songwriting, in which during the final section, Rufus responds to a discussion re Bjork saying something along the lines of
"good job we are both gay",
to which Michael responds :
"that's easy for you to say"

If this was a new revelation as per that news story, I wonder why didn't Q use this as a way to break the story exclusively?

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