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» One Touch Football - Archive » Music » It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) (Page 12)

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Author Topic: It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
Spearmint Rhino
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quote:
I did think about adding Iggy to the Sid example (except that he isn't British), but I'm pretty certain everyone familiar with his shtick would realise that his self-cutting was as big a part of his act as, say, setting his hair on fire was of Arthur Brown's. I'm just really not sure Richey falls into that category, is all.
Well, Richey was a very public cutter, not just a private one. He used to slash his chest up onstage, just like Iggy/Sid.
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Gangster Octopus
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Didn't Echo And The Bunnymen do a song about that?
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Spearmint Rhino
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That was more about Colmans-harm, though.
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TV's 'Mr P'
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quote:
Well, Richey was a very public cutter, not just a private one. He used to slash his chest up onstage, just like Iggy/Sid.
But why was he doing it? Perhaps there is a parallel to be drawn then with the Igster - however, I just can't help but see the latter as the more obvious exhibitionist who throughout his career has always had his tongue firmly in his cheek. I mean, that album wasn't called The Idiot for nothing, after all.
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Bored Of The Dance
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quote:
It certainly doesn't correlate strongly with suicidal behaviour, as far as I understand it.


Self-harming is more an issue of regaining ones control in any way possible, more similar to anorexia (which Richie was also suffering from?) and OCD
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Harry Carpenter
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I'm a complete layman but can't completely dissapearing and/or suicide also be seen as ways of "regaining ones control in any way possible"?
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Bored Of The Dance
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Yes, good point, well argued.

I was just expanding that self-harming didn't neccesarily mean that there were suicidal tendencies. Obviously, there are self-harmers that do end up committing suicide but also there are lots of people with suicidal tendencies who havenever self-harmed. Well, apart from committing suicide.

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Bored Of The Dance
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Bollocks, "Possessed to Skate" earworm
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Not me
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Richey's self-harm, especially the 4 REAL incident, always struck me as being much more controlled than Iggy's or Sid's, and probably closer to your everyday self-harmer in that way. Iggy's version seemed more a product of his brand of frenzied, Dionysiac performance (although I think he once said he'd nick himself if he was feeling nervous, which might be closer to textbook), whereas Sid was basically a walking car crash full of heroin, to mix a few metaphors, so it seemed to be just another symptom of his nihilism.

Interesting to note how rubbish Peter Doherty is at all this blood stuff, and indeed everything else <sups pint of nut-brown ale>.

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TV's 'Mr P'
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(It's good stuff, eh?)

Agree with most of that, NM, though I'd venture Sid was way off-kilter before he went full-time into heroin.

[ 25.03.2008, 20:44: Message edited by: TV's 'Mr P' ]

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Harry Carpenter
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quote:
Well, Richey was a very public cutter, not just a private one. He used to slash his chest up onstage,
Did he though? I think he often displayed fresh wounds during shows but I don't recall ever seeing him actually cutting himself onstage (with the possible exception of the Thailand gig but I can't even recall if that happened onstage or off).

I don't believe it would have been like him to make it part of the act.

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Pants
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My take on the Manics basically comes from something that Richey told me around the time of the first album: that music was right at the very bottom of their priorities. I had (and still have) an affection for the music but, as Not Me said a couple of pages ago, it was everything else that made them incredible. Their style, taste, intelligence, their fucking DNA, was so brilliant that it simply didn't matter that the music was tired old rock.

I'm not saying they were rubbish musically; yes, within the confines of that genre they did amazing, inspiring things (to me, Motown Junk was/is as life-changingly potent as Anarchy In The UK), but that kind of wasn't the point. They changed my life in so many ways that what they sounded like was irrelevant. Which is why I'll always love that first album - no matter how badly "produced, studio-smoothed and sterilised to within an inch of its life" it is. Motorcycle Emptiness was easily their pinnacle: the point where all of their youth, hope and naivety came together around what musical talent they had to make the perfect statement. And I love the fact that the album is too long and some tracks are useless and some of the lyrics ("Natwest, Natwest-Barclays-Midlands-Lloyds! Black horse apocalpyse! Death sanitised by credit!") are really daft.

To me, The Holy Bible seems self-indulgent and cynical - the sound of them not really knowing where to go and heading straight into easy nihilism, controversy for its own sake, woolly thinking and meaningless lyrics. Songs like Archives of Pain and Intense Humming of Evil don't do justice to the amazing band that they were and I've never got this 'Holy Bible was the ultimate mission statement' thing.

On the Richey '4REAL' thing, to me it was the perfect gesture. The bloke was passionate about what the band were doing, they were several light years ahead of anything anyone else was doing at the time (except The Stone Roses and hip hop) and he knew it. It totally exposed all the other junk that was out at the time as mere entertainment and made you (me) think, What the fuck is important to me? What do I want to do with my life? Which is just about the most incediary thing you can ask of a teenager. None of which is to say he didn't have a sense of humour - clearly, he did. Which, to me, somehow makes the whole mystery even more poignant.

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Spearmint Rhino
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quote:
Did he though? I think he often displayed fresh wounds during shows but I don't recall ever seeing him actually cutting himself onstage (with the possible exception of the Thailand gig but I can't even recall if that happened onstage or off).

I don't believe it would have been like him to make it part of the act.

I was mainly thinking of Thailand, and the famous photos of it, yeah. Fair point. He knew what he was doing, though. He knew the cameras would be on him.
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Spearmint Rhino
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Pants, so what you're basically saying is "I love Generation Terrorists-era Manics", rather than "I love Generation Terrorists". I can go along with that idea a lot more.

I have no idea how you can accuse The Holy Bible of having "woolly thinking and meaningless lyrics". I mean, you're a bright guy who's obviously paid plenty of attention to the Manics and presumably examined those lyrics in some detail. Meaningless? Really?

(And musically it's just astonishing. Bradfield and Moore completely understood what was required of them to match the mood of Richey's lyrics. An absolute masterpiece from a band at the peak of their game.)

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Pants
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quote:
Pants, so what you're basically saying is "I love Generation Terrorists-era Manics", rather than "I love Generation Terrorists". I can go along with that idea a lot more.

Well, yeah I definitely love/d "Generation Terrorists-era Manics", but to me "Generation Terrorists" so perfectly sums up that era - imperfections and all - that I can't do anything but love it. The album was key to the intensity I felt back then and remains so to this day. Basically, the fact that it's a bit tinny is small potatoes next to the impact it had on my life.

quote:
I have no idea how you can accuse The Holy Bible of having "woolly thinking and meaningless lyrics". I mean, you're a bright guy who's obviously paid plenty of attention to the Manics and presumably examined those lyrics in some detail. Meaningless? Really?
Mr. lenin - awaken the boy
Mr. stalin - bisexual epoch
Kruschev - self love in his mirrors
Brezhnev - married into group sex
Gorbachev - celibate self importance
Yeltsin - failure is his own impotence
Revol - revol
Revol - revol
Lebensraum - kulturkampf - raus - raus - fila - fila
Napoleon - childhood sweethearts
Chamberlain - you see god in you
Trotsky - honeymoon, serenade the naked
Che guevara - you're all target now
Pol pot - withdrawn traces, bye bye
Farrakhan - alimony alimony
Revol - revol
Revol - revol
Lebensraum - kulturkampf - raus - raus - fila - fila
Revol - revol
Revol - revol
Lebensraum - kulturkampf - raus - raus - fila - fila
Revol


quote:
(And musically it's just astonishing. Bradfield and Moore completely understood what was required of them to match the mood of Richey's lyrics. An absolute masterpiece from a band at the peak of their game.)
Musically, I think it's brilliant, but more than ever, I got the impression that one camp had written the lyrics and another, separate camp had done the music. Obviously this was always the case, but up until then, it always felt like words and music were more combined in a more collaborative way.

[ 26.03.2008, 09:57: Message edited by: Pants ]

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