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» One Touch Football - Archive » Music » It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) (Page 3)

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Author Topic: It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
Taylor
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I interviewed Nicky Wire a few years later, and he expressed a desire for the Manics to become like REM - a long-term successful group who "weren't a conventional rock band". I laughed that this was ironic: Nicky Wire going the same way as Michael Stipe. He didn't seem to get the reference, but he probably had other things on his mind.
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Spearmint Rhino
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quote:
Well, it's pretty clear what that means, isn't it.
Nah. Sorry, I'm not having that. It's open to a homophobic interpretation, which is the one to which the NME eagerly leapt, but Wire was pretty shaken when that misreading of his remarks was put to him post-gig.

(Indeed, you don't need to study the Manics for very long to realise that the idea of them being in any way homophobic is utterly ludicrous.)

And it might have been a bit route one, but seriously, I yearn for the days when the Manics were wishing death upon other bands (especially holier-than-holy rockcrit icons like R.E.M.). I get quite emotional when I think about it. All that stuff - the kamikaze attack on the consensus, tearing up the idea that we're all on the same side and replacing it with a divisive "Us Against You" attitude - was a massive part of why they were so brilliant and necessary.

And now he's bigging up Razorlight. Man. I love that guy to death and I always will, but... oh man.

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The Horse
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I mean it's clear that it means "die of Aids", so your pointing out that it doesn't explicitly mention Aids is a bit weak.

I'm all for kamikaze attacks on the consensus, but it'd be nice if there was more to them other than "um, er, I hope he dies of Aids! Chortle!" Especially if your own group is destined soon to become more boring than REM ever could be.

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Spearmint Rhino
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quote:
I mean it's clear that it means "die of Aids", so your pointing out that it doesn't explicitly mention Aids is a bit weak.
I know you meant that. And I'm sorry but you're completely wrong.

Freddie Mercury was a big rock star who was freshly-dead, and Wire wanted another one, namely Stipe on this occasion (but I'm sure he could have rattled off another 10 or 20 if asked) to drop.

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The Horse
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Well, OK. Obviously you know much better than me how it was intended. But it should have been obvious how it would be interpreted. If someone insists on making gratuitously controversial public statements without thinking them through, they're gonna blow up in their face eventually. And the point about it being empty and witless remains.
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Taylor
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The two relevant points here:

quote:
you don't need to study the Manics for very long to realise that the idea of them being in any way homophobic is utterly ludicrous
quote:
If someone insists on making gratuitously controversial public statements without thinking them through, they're gonna blow up in their face eventually.
Case closed, I reckon.
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Bored Of The Dance
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Sorry, Taylor, I think I am genuinely being thick here. How do you mean?
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Bored Of The Dance
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quote:
(Indeed, you don't need to study the Manics for very long to realise that the idea of them being in any way homophobic is utterly ludicrous.)

I can't think of anyone that I would say it is ludicrous to think of them being homophobic "in any way". There isn't a sharp line. We have all grown up in society that is still largely homophobic and, as with racism, we probably all still suffer from the homophobic views of that society to a lesser or greater degree.

Like Wire, I have probably said some stupid and regrettable statements that were subconsciously (or, even consciously) homophobic in private or public that I have regretted almost immediately.

I mean this since I have grown up and moved to London. When, like Wire, I grew up in a horribly monocultural Welsh town that was suspicious of homosexuality or other races, I probably used a lot of loathsome ignorant language that I hate to think about now.

Even if you won't "have" any homophobic intent or AIDS connection behind the Stipe/Mercury, which is extremely generous of you, the "faggots" and "cripples" one is pretty indefensible how ever well you know each other

Anyhaw, I think it does Wire a disservice to put so much thought into a couple of stupid remarks that he probably regrets now. Indeed, I am sure I read interviews where he has said he regrets the Stipe remark.

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Spearmint Rhino
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I regret his regret.
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adams house cat
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Hmm. Oh to be Nicky Wire! My perhaps ill-judged and basic description of Courtney Love has received condemnation while Mr. Wire's clear ( SR's eloquent re-intyerpretation not withstanding) homophobic and derogatory remarks about the disabled are defended. Hmm.
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Spearmint Rhino
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Defended and condemned by different people, old chap. (And it is not I who is 'reinterpreting' Wire's remark, it is everyone else, starting with the NME hack on the night.)
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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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You're not reinterpreting it at all?

Is this some kind of bizarre post-postmodern repudiation of the possibility of words meaning anything?

Or double standards? It can be hard to tell with you.

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Super Sharp Shooter
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I think the idea that Wire was having a dig at homosexuality in linking Mercury and Stipe is pretty much plainly daft. For a start, it shows a worryingly unsophisticated grasp of AIDS which I'm reasonably confident a man as bright as Wire doesn't share.

I do find him a bit tiresomely inflammatory, and I think as often as he gets a shot on target, he is equally often just being pointlessly and (to me) tediously confrontational to no end. But that's definitely a separate issue.

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Spearmint Rhino
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It's pretty simple.

Wire wasn't saying "Freddie Mercury was gay and died of the Big Gay Plague, and Michael Stipe is gay so let's hope he dies of the Big Gay Plague too". What he was saying - 'all' - he was saying - was "Famous rock star Freddie Mercury has died, so let's hope that famous rock star Michael Stipe, who I hate, dies too."

Wishing death on someone isn't nice either, but it wasn't meant to be. But one whiff of AIDS, and the NME put 2 and 2 together and made 5,000.

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noby
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What he was saying - 'all' - he was saying - was "Famous rock star Freddie Mercury has died, so let's hope that famous rock star Michael Stipe, who I hate, dies too."

Maybe 'goes the same way' was a bad choice of words so, as it does allude to dying of AIDS.

Anyway, I always thought Wire should be above wishing people dead, in the same way I thought he was better than 'Razorlight are great'.

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