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» One Touch Football - Archive » Music » It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine) (Page 4)

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Author Topic: It's The End Of The Closet As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)
Bored Of The Dance
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quote:
I think the idea that Wire was having a dig at homosexuality in linking Mercury and Stipe is pretty much plainly daft.
Why?

quote:
For a start, it shows a worryingly unsophisticated grasp of AIDS which I'm reasonably confident a man as bright as Wire doesn't share.
In what way does it show a unsophisticated grasp.

Seriously, if your recent cab driver had said the same thing (assuming they had heard of Stipe and himbeing gay) would you have cut him this much slack?

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Disney Girl
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I thought he had outed himself back in 'Tour Film' days. Must admit it's not the most surprising bit of news.
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Wyatt Earp
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ahc: what do you mean by "basic"?
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Purves Grundy
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Was he wishing Stipe get good AIDS or bad AIDS?
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Not me
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Wasn't Wire deliberately playing on the special status given to AIDS, next to other causes of death, by cloying meeja luvvies? The kind of people who would have been at that London gig despite not really getting the band's ethos? You know, despite the fact that all sane people - and every last one of those meeja people - knew full well by 1992 that AIDS wasn't a "gay plague" or whatever?

I think Taylor's got the main points there, though. Fun to say on the night, but a bit crap in the cold light of day.

[ 20.03.2008, 15:22: Message edited by: Not me ]

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Reed
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The notion that Michael Stipe "coming out" would surprise or be news to anyone reminds me of this.

"Yeah, and I can't believe Liberace was gay. I mean, women loved him!"

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Super Sharp Shooter
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quote:
In what way does it show a unsophisticated grasp.
It relies on the erroneous notion that AIDS is a gay disease.
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Gus Tomato
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Nah, he was probably just talking out of his arse the way guys with guitars in second division tribute bands do.
Bet Stipe has never heard of him.

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blackdogbeak
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quote:
Nah, he was probably just talking out of his arse the way guys with guitars in second division tribute bands do.
Word.
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Not me
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Actually, thinking about it, it was a fucking brilliant thing to say. A really niggly cheap shot with that exposed the machinations of the "caring" media (ie the music press, cause it didn't reach anywhere else) that reported it, to my 15-year-old hick self at least.
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Disney Girl
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Given some of the comments on here over recent REM albums, as a bit of an afficianado of the band, having luckily bought 'Murmur' because I liked the cover (didn't often do that sort of thing honest!) and saw them 3 times out of the first 10 times they played this country and 6 or 7 times since (though none of that actually gives me any more rights to judge their output than anyone else of course!), I just want to say 'Around the Sun' has been sadly under rated. I can't say I have been overcome with joy at some of their mid to late 90's output (though they have still produced some great singles) but I have listened to 'Around the Sun' on an ongoing basis probably as much as anything up to 'Automatic for the People'.

What I like about it is probably what a lot of others didn't like, in that it was very different to recent output, the enigmatic lyrics and make-it-up-as-you-go-along singing style has been done to death as has the byrdisain guitar stuff and they dropped that all. It's also astonishingly political which is fine with me as I like to hear what they have to say. It also has three of the best songs REM have ever written (The Outsiders, Boy in the Well and Final Straw. Electron Blue and Leaving New York have melodies most other bands would give their back teeth for as well!) and some quite brilliant anatomy of America's current plight over it's position in the world, intrusion into it from the outside world and it's imperialistic follies.

It's well worth having a listen to again as I think it's a bit of a maltreated and misunderstood gem really. I must admit I much prefer it to what I have heard from the new album (though that may grow on me) and I fear they are now reacting to criticism rather than pushing on with what they feel is the right way to go. Anyway, I'm off to see them on Monday which I am looking forward to.

Anyway..er...carry on.

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adams house cat
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Nicky Wire has never struck me as being unsophistcated. On the contrary. He certainly has a grasp of the rule that if you are a guitar slinger in a rock'n'roll band that has carefully cultivated a reputation for intelligence and radicalism you can fool a lot of people a lot of the time and say what you damn well please and allow others to apologize for you thus leaving your radical credentials intact. I find the premise that he didn't associate Mercury/Gay/Aids/Death, frankly, preposterous.

Wyatt, by 'basic' I meant crude, short and unseemly. I regret, slightly, the fat and ugly bit but I think slattern fits - she has the dress sense of an unmade bed and no sense of decency at all. My absolute loathing of Courtney Love is well documented to regular readers of this forum and I may have let my disgust color my language but I stand by my opinion of Ms. Love.

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Gus Tomato
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I find the premise that he didn't associate Mercury/Gay/Aids/Death, frankly, preposterous.

I find the fact that he gets one of the crew to tie a boa to his mike stand preposterous.

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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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quote:
It relies on the erroneous notion that AIDS is a gay disease.
Yeah, that would be like thinking smoking was a "pleasure of the poor", or something...
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TV's 'Mr P'
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The only person who seems to have grasped the real 'problem' with Wire's comment here seems to be Horse. If he actually meant anything other than 'I hope he also dies of that faggot disease' then there are several hundred other ways that he might have chosen to express this opinion in order to avoid understandable misinterpretation - whether humorously intended or otherwise. The 'he's clearly an intelligent guy so couldn't have meant it' line just doesn't wash, I'm afraid. Whatever your educational level regarding AIDS, its evolution or indeed its targets (for want of a better word), issuing witless, inflammatory statements like that isn't likely to buy you many favours - which presumably is why you would choose to issue them in the first place. In short, yes, he was making the comment from his position as wannabe glam rock god - but it still translates the same way to the masses as it would coming from anyone else. (If one then tries to fudge the issue by criticising observers for not 'getting' some kind of trumped-up irony - or even attempting to suggest Wire simply intended to wish 'death' on Stipe - that's just plain daft.)

(Wire's later quip as quoted by SR appears to emphasise it as being what he meant, whether he regretted it or otherwise. That said, I have far less of a problem with the later remark, since it appears to have been a clumsy attempt at broader black humour, given that it at least had some kind of context to it.)

But then, I s'pose if he were my mate and I knew his foibles, I might just go that little bit further to defend him than I would the racist/homophobic cab driver (or whatever the example was). I'd like to think I'd still call him a complete prick, though.

But as he isn't my mate, I'll just stop at calling him a complete prick.

[ 20.03.2008, 16:07: Message edited by: TV's 'Mr P' ]

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