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» One Touch Football - Archive » World » His money was only resting in her account... (Page 4)

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Hieronymus Bosch
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Ah yes, our old friend, the Dead Man Strategy.

Charles Haughey used it a fair bit at the McCracken Tribunal in the late 1990s. One afternoon while being cross-examined in Dublin Castle, he ejaculated the words "Des Traynor" so often that someone remarked afterwards that he was suffering from a bad case of the DTs.

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Hieronymus Bosch
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Today the Mahon Tribunal heard that Celia Larkin, Bertie's ex-girlfriend, was given IR£30,000 (the rough equivalent of €80,000 in today's money) from Fianna Fail party funds in 1993, to help two of her elderly aunts to buy a house.

Larkin apparently paid back the loan with interest in the last few weeks, 14 years later. Ahern has denied any involvement in the loan.

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bryanattoni
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Whatever about bribes or public money, this is Fianna Fail money. That's a big no-no. I don't think the powers that be will be pleased.

And I hear his lawyers had a go at the tribunal again, after which Judge Mahon told them to get stuffed, greeted by rapturous applause from the public gallery.

I had RTE radio on in the car and it was like government propaganda. "What does this have to do with Quarryvale..." Yeah, that's why you're a radio presenter and not a trial lawyer.

[ 22.02.2008, 20:05: Message edited by: bryanattoni ]

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Impact Substitute
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C'mon bryan, it's not the duty of media to act as the prosecution. Questioning opposing parties in any debate is how it is and how it should be. Speaking of which, RTE Radio this morning was a hoot - FF Senator, Martin Mansergh, was losing the plot when questioned about Ahern. He was actually screaming at the presenter as his voice hit pitches I thought only Barry Gibb could achieve. It's a witch-hunt and trial-by-media say FF and Ahern's supporters - a useless arguement and one that smacks of desperation, blaming the media for focusing on the issue.

"a public donation for my personal use". That's a good one. He's inventing phrases now to explain and justify his actions. He really has taken the public for a ride.

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Hieronymus Bosch
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quote:
I don't think the powers that be will be pleased.
Unfortunately, Ahern is the powers that be.

Anyway, the rest of them don't give a fuck about this really. Remember, we are talking about a political party that continued to venerate Charles Haughey even after it was proven beyond all doubt that he helped himself to thousands and thousands of pounds from Brian Lenihan's liver transplant fund.

The only things these people are concerned with are staying in office and sticking it to the other crowd. They will only start caring about this as soon as it looks like it might be starting to cost them votes. That point has not yet been reached, and indeed it may never be reached.

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bryanattoni
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quote:
C'mon bryan, it's not the duty of media to act as the prosecution.
It's not their duty to act as the defence either, is the point I was trying to make.

The whole "what does this have to do with Quarryvale" thing is an FF talking point and any presenter caught muttering that should be taken out and shot by the RTE firing squad.

[ 23.02.2008, 12:54: Message edited by: bryanattoni ]

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Impact Substitute
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But they're not acting as the defence, or as anything. The nature of political debate is to question, whatever the issue and no matter how straightforward the issue is.
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Hieronymus Bosch
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Here's a handy little pocket guide to Ahern's finances to cut out and keep.


quote:
30 December 1993 B. Ahern lodges IR£22,500: of which IR£15,000 cash, IR£5,000 from Padraic O`Connor of NCB and IR£2,500 from Des Richardson

25 April 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£30,000, of which IR£27,164.44 to special savings account and IR£2,835.26 to current account

8 August 1994 B Ahern lodges IR£20,000 to account in names of daughters

11 October 1994 FX BA lodges IR£24,838.49 to deposit account (equates to £25,000 stg)

5 December 1994 IR£50,000 (in two amounts - IR£28,000 and IR£22,000) transferred from B. Ahern`s account to C Larkin account (CL1)

5 December 1994 FX IR£28,772.90 lodged to C Larkin account (CL2) (equates to $45,000)
19 January 2005 IR£50,000 transferred from C Larkin deposit account to cash save account

27 January 1995 IR£50,000 withdrawn from C Larkin Deposit Account and given to BA

15 May 1995 IR£8,442 withdrawn from CL2

19 June 1995 IR£20,050.91 withdrawn from CL2 for work on house

22 June 1995 FX IR£9,684.71 balance from CL2 used to open a new Larkin account - CL3
Also lodged to this account on this day was IR£11,743.74, comprising IR£2,000 and stg£10,000 (£IR 9,742.74)

24 July 1995 IR£9,655 lodged into CL3 account
1 December 1995 FX IR£19,142.92 lodged to B. Ahern`s deposit account (equates to stg£20,000)

New A/Cs Feb `08
IPBS a/c £38,000
BT a/c £52,000



[ 23.02.2008, 16:40: Message edited by: Lt. Frank Drebin ]

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Hieronymus Bosch
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Brian Cowen has had a go at Enda Kenny. Some pretty nauseating comments from Gormley near the end.

quote:
Tánaiste says Kenny sounds like Napoleon
Monday, 25 February 2008 16:41


Tánaiste Brian Cowen has accused Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny of sounding more and more like Napoleon in Elba, drawing up plans for wars he lost, as he criticises the Taoiseach.

Mr Cowen said Mr Kenny's claim that the Government was paralysed because of the Mahon Tribunal evidence was nonsense. He said he was not in the business of evaluating tribunal proceedings day-by-day and hour-by-hour.

Speaking in Co Offaly, Mr Cowen said the Government was doing its work and he had spent the morning meeting the HSE to discuss the development of services in the midlands.
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He said he would be at cabinet tomorrow and there would be opportunities in the Dáil for discussion and to take questions and do the business of the Government.

'We will get on with our work,' Mr Cowen said 'and I am sure the tribunal will get on with theirs.'

When asked by RTÉ News when he became aware of a £30,000 loan from the trust, Mr Cowen said he had not discussed this with Mr Ahern.

He said Mr Ahern was handling that in his own way in compliance with terms of reference of the Mahon Tribunal.

When asked a second time when he became aware of the loan, Mr Cowen said he did not have prior discussions with the Taoiseach about the giving of Mr Ahern's evidence.

Kenny says questions unanswered

Earlier Fine Gael leader Enda Kenny said Mr Ahern still has questions to answer in relation to his personal finances.

He also claimed Bertie Ahern had lost the trust and respect of the electorate following further revelations at the Mahon Tribunal last week.

Speaking on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland, Mr Kenny said Mr Ahern was himself responsible for unanswered questions.

Yesterday, he said his party would consider moving another motion of 'no confidence' in the government if Fianna Fáil ministers do not act on the issue.

Minister for the Environment John Gormley said the controversy surrounding Mr Ahern was distracting from the work of the Government and that he was intent on continuing to implement an ambitious programme.

He said the Green Party remained consistent in its position with regard to ongoing revelations at the Mahon Tribunal.

He said the tribunal must be allowed to complete its work unhindered and that no decisions should be taken ahead of the outcome of that inquiry.

Mr Gormley accused the Opposition of being inconsistent in the position it was now adopting.

He pointed out that it had remained very quiet during the election and had allowed the tribunal to continue its work.


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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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Er,

quote:
Minister for the Environment John Gormley said the controversy surrounding Mr Ahern was distracting from the work of the Government and that he was intent on continuing to implement an ambitious programme.
What he's saying is that what matters is the report, not the giving of evidence. This seems entirely fair. Ahern's evasive conduct in giving evidence is disgraceful, but it's sort of irrelevant to the real issue, which is whether or not he's corrupt.

quote:
He said the Green Party remained consistent in its position with regard to ongoing revelations at the Mahon Tribunal.

He said the tribunal must be allowed to complete its work unhindered and that no decisions should be taken ahead of the outcome of that inquiry.

Seems fair enough.

quote:
Mr Gormley accused the Opposition of being inconsistent in the position it was now adopting.

He pointed out that it had remained very quiet during the election and had allowed the tribunal to continue its work.

This is true. As noted at the time, all Enda Kenny had to do was repeat this thread title on telly a couple of times, and the game would be up for bertie. The opposition parties totally bottled this at election time, and Gormley, who would openly have preferred to go into coalition with them, is well within his rights to point that out.
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Hieronymus Bosch
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Whaaaaaat??? You couldn't shut Fine Gael up about the Mahon Tribunal during the election. Gormley is living in a different world.

He's also a hypocrite. You can imagine the heights of apoplexy that he and his party would have been roused to on this issue were they still in opposition. The Greens have tossed away their principles in return for a few years of ministerial cars, bigger desks and larger salaries, and they deserve every inch of the painful anal shafting that they're going to receive at the next general election.

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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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quote:
You couldn't shut Fine Gael up about the Mahon Tribunal during the election.
You are joking, right?

quote:
He's also a hypocrite. You can imagine the heights of apoplexy that he and his party would have been roused to on this issue were they still in opposition. The Greens have tossed away their principles in return for a few years of ministerial cars, bigger desks and larger salaries, and they deserve every inch of the painful anal shafting that they're going to receive at the next general election.
It's not hypocritical. The job of his party in opposition is to jump all over this shit and keep the government honest. The job of his party in government is to swallow their distaste, and use this to extract as much of their legislative agenda as possible from Fianna Fáil, in exchange for their continued support until the findings of the tribunal, if they do, make that support unsustainable.
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Hieronymus Bosch
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You are joking, right?

No, I'm not joking. Fine Gael banged on about it a lot. You would presumably have been in England for the majority of the campaign so you might have missed it.

The job of his party in government is to swallow their distaste, and use this to extract as much of their legislative agenda as possible from Fianna Fáil, in exchange for their continued support until the findings of the tribunal, if they do, make that support unsustainable.

Ah, come off it. As if the Greens went into government unaware that Ahern and Fianna Fail were a gang of criminally corrupt sleeveens! The story about Ahern's money was in the public domain for at least nine months before the election.

Where are all these legislative goodies that they're extracting from Fianna Fail?

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The Batebe of Toro Foundation
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quote:
You would presumably have been in England for the majority of the campaign so you might have missed it.


I read the papers just as much as anyone else, you know. Kenny conspicuously made virtually no mention of it in the leaders' "debate".

The FG press officer is a mate of mine. Had they made sufficient hay of this, I think he might once in a while point that out when I drunkenly harangue him for not doing so.

quote:
Ah, come off it. As if the Greens went into government unaware that Ahern and Fianna Fail were a gang of criminally corrupt sleeveens! The story about Ahern's money was in the public domain for at least nine months before the election.

I said nothing of the sort. I said that the price of being in government and influencing the agenda was - in this case - having to put up with the stench of the sleveen gombeen men who were going into government one way or the other, without or without green input.

[ 25.02.2008, 19:56: Message edited by: The peak of El Toro-quino ]

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Hieronymus Bosch
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I read the papers just as much as anyone else, you know.

You're still incorrect -- the issue was seen as one of Ahern's achilles heels and they kept picking at it again and again. A good friend of mine works in Fine Gael's communications department (I can give you his name if you want), and he told me the day after the election that Ahern's finances was one of four key subjects they had planned in advance to comprehensively target Fianna Fail on. Another was the state of the country's services (health/roads etc); another was inflation/high prices; I can't remember what the fourth was.

[ 25.02.2008, 19:56: Message edited by: Lt. Frank Drebin ]

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