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Author Topic: David Cameron, perhaps not quite as surefooted as we've been lead to believe.
You Are The Ref
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(If that annoys you, you might be cheered up to learn that Alice has pissed on a pile of my clothes).
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Lucy Waterman It Be
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quote:
They'd better be good presentations. I can't see all that much justification for these trips. Not only are only 2 kids going from each school at considerable expense but the holocaust is an area of (relative) good knowledge among students. It's not as if they didn't know what a gas chamber was without going.
Hah. Mrs Lucy teaches in an inner city comprehensive. Last year, she asked the class if they knew what happened in the holocaust, and was told that "that was when they cut up all the Jews with swords innit."
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Lieutenant Dub
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quote:
lesbian IRA theatre groups
That would be great. I would call it 'Erin go Braless'.

quote:
(If that annoys you, you might be cheered up to learn that Alice has pissed on a pile of my clothes).
Wife? Girlfriend? Daughter? Pet?
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You Are The Ref
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Sort of a mixture of all four.
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Lieutenant Dub
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Didn't know you were from Somerset.
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Spearmint Rhino
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Did anyone catch the double-bill on BBC4 last night? A history of Conservative leaders, presented by Michael Portillo, followed by a history of Leaders Of The Opposition (covering a lot of the same ground).

Not really eye-opening stuff as such, but full of "what were they thinking?" moments. The election of Ian Duncan Smith as Tory leader, for example (by the second time I saw the "Never underestimate the determination of the quiet man" clip, it was really making me giggle). And Kinnock at Sheffield: "Well, alriiight! Well, alriiight! Well, alriiight!" Ubercringe...

And, with hindsight, one has to reluctantly accept that Michael Foot was a disaster, even though he was clearly an utterly decent man. If Labour had wised up quicker and tried to present its early 80s policies with some Saatchi-style spin... well, that's the biggest 'if' in Labour history, isn't it.

The part that surprised me was that both shows made great play of Cameron's inclusiveness and grooviness, or at least his attempts to present himself as such, and said nothing about the fact that his shadow cabinet is packed with Etonians and is, if anything, more patrician and elitist than any of Thatcher's non-shadow ones.

[ 26.02.2008, 11:14: Message edited by: Spearmint Rhino ]

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Spearmint Rhino
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Oh, and someone - a Labourite, but I can't remember who it was - came up with the conspiracy theory that the Gang Of Four (and other proto-SDP types) deliberately voted for Foot in order to make Labour unelectable, paving the way for their own centrist project...
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You Are The Ref
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There was a Viz Top Tip once that suggested saving money on heating bills in winter by thinking back to Neil Kinnock bellowing 'Well allriiight!' at Sheffield- within seconds you'll be tingling red-hot with embarassment.
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G-Man
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Ha, I know the government minister Jim Murphy. His younger brother used to be a friend of mine, and Minister Jim graduated from the same high school G-Boy goes to.

I met Minister Jim only once though. We played football and I kicked lumps out of him.

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Tubby Isaacs
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Ah, sorry about that, YATR. But glad to hear she's all right in a funny sort of way.

I don't think the Holocaust does the "Lesbian IRA disabled" dogwhistle, does it? I don't recalll many of the loony left scare stories being about Jews.

My sense that this is quite a lot of money in a school budget is derived from the fact I had my voluntary work terminated by a school because they "couldn't justify spending their budget on only a few pupils". I'd thought I was free but never mind.

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Tubby Isaacs
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I thought the SDPers were on record as voting for Healey, but they might have lied about that. I think they really started acting up when they lost the vote at the Wembley conference about making MPs more accountable to their constituency party. They didn't half talk some shit about "disgraceful scenes" and all.

Harold Wilson behaved oddly in that election, voting for Healey in the first ballot and Foot in the second. Healey, understandably miffed, described it as an existentialist acte gratuit. But presumably he was just backing the winner- though there isn't any need for an ex-leader to do that.

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My name is Mumpo
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quote:
If Labour had wised up quicker and tried to present its early 80s policies with some Saatchi-style spin... well, that's the biggest 'if' in Labour history, isn't it
It still would have been like trying to start a boulder rolling down a hillside by levering it with a toothpick, and hoping it could match the unstoppable momentum of Thatcher's political juggernaut. The trouble is that 'Saatchi-style spin' only works on Saatchi-style policies. If you try to combine that image with left-wing policies you end up creating a monstrous charlatan like Derek Hatton.

[ 26.02.2008, 15:45: Message edited by: Major Eazy ]

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Wyatt Earp
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I think you're mistaken there, ME: Thatcher's coronation as a political phenomenon has been largely retrospective. She never really swept the country, and against a united opposition she would have had small or nonexistent majorities, even with Labour's propensity to come across repeatedly as idiotic.
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You Are The Ref
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(Edit- to Major Eazy) Yeah, it's a mistake to think of the PR/marketing industry as politically neutral, and slick marketing as a tool that can be used with equal effectiveness by left and right. Labour under Neil Kinnock were quick to adopt Saatchi-style methods after 1983*, but it didn't do them much good until, under Tony Blair, the party was sufficiently moulded into an ideologically bleached 'product' fit to be spun.

* Anyone who credits Peter Mandelson with any sort of political savvy might care to remember his heavy involvement at this time.

[ 26.02.2008, 15:38: Message edited by: You Are The Ref ]

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My name is Mumpo
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quote:
Thatcher's coronation as a political phenomenon has been largely retrospective. She never really swept the country
Does a landslide general election victory not count as 'sweeping the country'?
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