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» One Touch Football - Archive » World » A party political broadcast on behalf of the BNP (Page 4)

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Author Topic: A party political broadcast on behalf of the BNP
Mitch
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That sort of rhetoric really isn't connecting around here, thankfully.

The attitude towards the Polish is far more "those poor bastards are being shafted" than "they're stealing all our jobs".

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Super Sharp Shooter
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quote:
I think we mainly disagree on one point SSS, the amount of people attracted by the anti-immigration rhetoric. One good thing is that those moaning about foreigners generally are not very good at organising themselves nor present a coherent argumentation but I'm wary of a pissed-off lumpenproletariat, if only to avoid having my head kicked in by some bloke in the pub who blames me for his problems.
Well, yes, that's always a concern. Just a few days ago I was in a taxi in the morning to work, and the taxi driver - female, incidentally - started banging on about "Pakis" and how they get a three grand grant when they come to Britain. I told her this was made up racist bullshit, and she retorted with the all the usual rubbish, including "It's not made up, I personally know someone who got this grant". So I had to explain to her that not only was she wrong, but she was actually lying about this, knew she was lying, and if she didn't mind, I didn't want to hear any more of her racist shit at 9am, thanks.

So yes, these people are out there, and they certainly appear to have some brazen confidence in expressing their views, but in what numbers, it's hard to say. What we can say, though, as I keep pointing out, is that no politician has got very far on an anti-immigration platform in recent years. If the Daily Mail myth that it's issue number 1 for the British Public were true, the BNP and UKIP would be romping home, and they're simply not.

[ 12.03.2008, 11:55: Message edited by: Super Sharp Shooter ]

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E10Rifle
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Agree completely with SSS on this, though could I just stand on a wobbly soapbox for a minute and nonetheless urge people to do all they can to prevent the BNP making electoral gains in May's local elections? Even if it means just making sure you vote (they tend to do well in low turnouts).
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Super Sharp Shooter
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They do very well indeed in low turnouts. One of the reason why the "there's no point voting, they're all the same" brigade frustrate me so much. They (politicians) might all be cunts, maybe (thought that's not my view) but some of them are definitely bigger cunts.
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Bored Of The Dance
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Considering the "What we are percieved as" thread, it is encouraging to hear that you are exactly the same at 9am in a taxi, SSS, as on here

I didn't see the Powell documentary unfortunately but I agree that there is some use in seeing what, if anything, he ended up being right about albeit by accident and with hindsight.

As far as the anti-immigration policies are concerned, they may be unpopular for political parties but I am deeply suspicious of these bullshit "Britishness" and "Pleadging Allegiance to the Queen" ideas are "You Immigrants Toe The Line Or Else" sops

[ 12.03.2008, 12:17: Message edited by: Bored Of The Dance ]

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Bored Of The Dance
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quote:
Do you think Billy Bragg has approved his song being used on that trailer?
He's doing a voice-over over the same on Radio 4, Harry, so presumably so.
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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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A pet theory of mine is that a Venn diagram of "Politicians are all the same" and "Too many foreigners" would show a significant common ground, which is good news...
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Super Sharp Shooter
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quote:
Considering the "What we are percieved as" thread, it is encouraging to hear that you are exactly the same at 9am in a taxi, SSS, as on here
I'm quite dozy in the morning, as a rule, but it really fucked me off. I hate that implicit assumption: "You're white, so this is bound to be okay with you". That's got to be challenged.
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Bored Of The Dance
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I agree, it is just that I am not sure how many people do challenge it face-to-face.

With people I know, I do try to subtly point out the idiocy of anti-immigration points. You know, by countering the "Coming over here without learning our language" with the cases of ex-pat Brits who don't bother learning Spanish in Spain, that kind of thing.

I haven't had a racist cab driver in a long while (all the ones here are Polish and don't speak a word of English) but I wonder if I would be brave enough to take one on straight or would I do a bit of middle class tut-tuttin, hand-wringing and say that it isn't going to achieve anything in the long-term arguing with them.

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Super Sharp Shooter
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quote:
I agree, it is just that I am not sure how many people do challenge it face-to-face.
Yeah, a lot of people don't. I've certainly failed to do so in the past, but I've always bitterly regretted it, so I resolved to always do so, unless I thought I was going to get stabbed over it or something. I don't mind a row, and I can even live with being punched, though I'd rather not be.

quote:
With people I know, I do try to subtly point out the idiocy of anti-immigration points. You know, by countering the "Coming over here without learning our language" with the cases of ex-pat Brits who don't bother learning Spanish in Spain, that kind of thing.
That's fine, but with someone who is flat out lying to you about it and knows they are... well fuck those people. It's not that she was misinformed, it's that she was a bullshitting racist git, and a stony wall of zero tolerance is appropriate in such cases, I think.

[ 12.03.2008, 13:00: Message edited by: Super Sharp Shooter ]

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Bored Of The Dance
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This is the quandary though, albeit the limp-wristed liberal one, what is to be achieved by taking on someone like this head-on? You are hardly going to change their views and it will probably only harden their views about "politically correct do-gooders" or whatever.

Equally, there is no long-term relationship with these people to change their views over a period of time.

I think I have only ever known one out and out racist guy over a long-term that I was able to challenge his views and I am not sure that I ever got anywhere with him.

On the other hand, if you just want to have a go at such bigots and aren't particualrly bothered about whether they challenge their views or not then , fair dos and good on you

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Tubby Isaacs
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The programme is, I think, available on iplayer.

I haven't watched the rest of it but I get frustrated with the idea (put forward by among others, Tony Benn) that somehow you couldn't talk about immigration before Powell. Hadn't pretty serious restrictions been imposed in 1961 or thereabouts? So by this time, it was dependents who were coming, aside from special cases like Ugandan and Kenyan Asians.

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Croute au fromage et oeuf au plat
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I've adopted a similar position than SSS recently and it lead to a rather melodramatic falling out with those "Renaissance Men" I started a thread about (the one about the limits of humour).
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Malcolm X
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Immigration laws were tightened in around 1960. but they were almost non-existant before then.

Practically anyone could turn up when my parents arrived in the mid 60's and it is only from around 1980 onwards when it became a bit difficult to arrive here and settle.

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E10Rifle
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He's still, occasionally, pretty good.
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