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» One Touch Football - Archive » World » Meet the new boss, same as the old boss (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Meet the new boss, same as the old boss
Rogin the Armchair fan
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Dmitriy Medvedev, then. "Working in tandem" with Putin as Prime Minister. Wouldn't this be a bit like Gordon Brown ennobling Tony Blair, and then appointing Lord Blair of Sedgefield to be Foreign Secretary?

Is Putin so popular in Russia that the people would have actually preferred him to stay on for a third term? If so, you'd have thought they'd have held a referendum on constitutional change to that effect, wouldn't you?

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Ginger Yellow
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"Is Putin so popular in Russia that the people would have actually preferred him to stay on for a third term?"

Yes, unfortunately.

"If so, you'd have thought they'd have held a referendum on constitutional change to that effect, wouldn't you?"

Obviously, I can't say for certain why he didn't, but there are a few obvious reasons. And why bother when you've got a handpicked successor who owes everything to you?

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Lardinho
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Given that Medvedev would have won by a huge margin anyway, why on earth did Putin sanction such a corrupt election? It makes no sense to me. If you're going to be corrupt, be corrupt when there's a risk of losing, surely. Because now everyone thinks Medvedev is unfairly elected and his election is flawed, without him ever needing that.
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ursus arctos
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What's a bit surprising to me is that they evidently felt compelled to engage in some old style election fraud, even though the outcome was never in doubt.
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Rogin the Armchair fan
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Maybe a bit further down the Russian party chain it's just hard-wired into the system, a bit like Western party apparatuses seemingly being unable to contest a campaign without 'leaking' inflammatory out-of-context statements or pictures of their opponents, instead of concentrating on promoting their own candidate's attributes or policies.
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Belhaven
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It is maybe a way for governors of the different states and counties to show loyalty to the president, who after all, appoint them directly. The greater the support for Medvedev, the better for the respective governors.
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ursus arctos
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I think both of those factors are likely to have come into play here. It could well also be the case that Putin actually prefers the whiff of illegitimacy around Medvedev, as it further weakens the already extremely low probability that Medvedev would develop any independent power base or even become a potential rival.
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Rogin the Armchair fan
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What interests me is at what point in the future (if at all) The near-consensus behind the "United Russia Party" does fragment, and what happens then. At this election, it seems voters were presented with a choice of the monolithic Presidential party, the Communists and the hard-line nationalists. It doesn't seem much of a "choice" for those who want a debate between centre-right and centre-left, which as we know is where most Western democratic systems have stabilised to over the last 50 years or so.

It seems, in context, a bit like having a UK general election where the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems all came together to agree that Brown was their preferred candidate, to fight an election against Nick Griffin and Arthur Scargill.

I suppose in keeping the spectre of an extreme government forming, it works; maybe that's the imperative. Get "the Party" in with a landslide, and then let the debate about policy direction happen internally? But then, as I said, when does it break up? Would it be only forced by the emergence in eight years of two or more rival cetnrist candidates, each determined to succeed and none able to secure the backing of Medvedev (or Putin)?

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ursus arctos
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You seem to be assuming that a functioning democracy is the goal here.

There is frightfully little evidence of that being the case.

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Rogin the Armchair fan
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Not a "goal" of anyone currently in power, certainly, but surely once the people are given the opportunity to enjoy and play with democracy, it has to evolve, doesn't it? If it doesn't, it's an interesting kick in the teeth for Western foreign policy in a number of areas, where we're trying to promote just such an outcome on countries that have never had it, on the assumption they must "want" it, or indeed "need" it somehow. If Russia demonstrates that that simply isn't the case, maybe we need to re-evaluate our own political processes? Would we, in the West, be better off being led politically by the same cartel of oligarchs who control the businesses we work for? It is a hard question to ask honestly of ourselves without provoking a knee-jerk reaction of "no".
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ad hoc
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Would we, in the West, be better off being led politically by the same cartel of oligarchs who control the businesses we work for?

Do you really think we aren't?

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Belhaven
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Putin made some remarks about 6 months ago that he hoped there would emerge a left-wing social democratic party in Russia sometime in the future.

The existing regime is still not as secure in its foundations as their Western counterparts and thus still not ripe for a split into several parties. I suppose in most Western countries it makes little difference for the vital intersts whether there is a socal democratic moderate left wing party or a right wing party in power, while a change in Russia today could be seen as a potential threat to the present power structure composed of FSB, Gazprom and the weapons industry.

If elections really mattered, maybe we wouldn't have them. Russia is an example of just that.

[ 03.03.2008, 11:15: Message edited by: Belhaven ]

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Ginger Yellow
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"Putin made some remarks about 6 months ago that he hoped there would emerge a left-wing social democratic party in Russia sometime in the future."

There already is one. It's called Yabloko. And it's been doing worse and worse every election, partly because of being effectively banned from the airwaves and partly because of internal disputes.

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Belhaven
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Yabloko is a pro-Western party. In Russia, this has about the same status as being a "liberal" in the USA, and is a stick to beat opponents with. They are not part of what may be termed the Putin regime, from within which I understood he hoped a left-wing party some day would appear. Yabloko is not a member of that gang, and thus a threat.
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garcia en dolor
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 -

check out medvedev's sexy jacket. i think this guy is pretty hip and youthful.

from the spiegel article the photo accompanied:

quote:
Just five days before the presidential election, Putin gave a clear signal that he favors radical nostalgia for a lost Russian empire over liberal thinking. The president sent patriotic, nationalist Moscow author and journalist Alexander Prokhanov, editor in chief of the ultra-nationalist paper Zavtra, a telegram wishing him a happy 70th birthday.
he sent him a what?

the next paragraph:

quote:
Putin praised Prokhanov, known for shrill anti-Americanism, saying he represents a viewpoint that is "always convincing." Putin said he was certain that Prokhanov's work would serve to aid the further "stabilization of Russia." The birthday boy, who Putin once invited to the Kremlin library for a discussion over tea, is known for his thesis: "Only dead liberalism is good liberalism."
this guy sounds like a legend.

[ 03.03.2008, 18:39: Message edited by: garcia en dolor ]

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