This board has been transferred to www.wsc.co.uk,

    why not join us there

One Touch Football - Archive   
my profile | directory login | search | faq | forum home

  next oldest topic   next newest topic
» One Touch Football - Archive » Film » No Country for Old Men (Page 3)

 - UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!   This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6   
Author Topic: No Country for Old Men
The Batebe of Toro Foundation
Member
Member # 465

 - posted      Profile for The Batebe of Toro Foundation     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
***Possible Spoiler***
Regarding the exchange between Chigurh and Moss' wife at the end, I think she was killed by him, given the evidence previously discussed. Her refusal to call the coin toss was a 'moral' victory for her over Chigurh.

Yeah, exactly. It's maybe the one note of moral hope in the whole film; there's a big bleak landscape of essentially decent people who compromise themselves hopelessly just by trying to survive, Chigurh being only its (radically) logical conclusion. Indeed, Chigurh alone prospers because he is totally amoral; Llewellyn's woes arise from his guilt, from his going back to bring the injured man water. By refusing even what we know would be a 50% chance of survival, by refusing to accept the terms of Chigurh's game even though they are better for her, his wife renounces not just Chigurh's game, but the entire corrupted world it symbolises. And I think that's what TLJ's speech at the end is getting at.

[ 27.01.2008, 22:25: Message edited by: Toroweap Fault ]

Posts: 17027 | From: your gaff, nicking stuff. | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Heston Bee
Member
Member # 836

 - posted      Profile for Heston Bee     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Definitely. I should've added to my penultimate sentence that the importance of events is in their occurence, not their origin, but, crucially, how we deal with said happenings is more important still.
Posts: 1493 | From: Loondoon | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Amor de Cosmos
Member
Member # 87

 - posted      Profile for Amor de Cosmos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It's maybe the one note of moral hope in the whole film

And what is moral hope worth when you're dead and no one was there to witness it except your killer?

[ 28.01.2008, 02:26: Message edited by: Amor de Cosmos ]

Posts: 7138 | From: here you can't get there | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Willie1Foot
Member
Member # 18

 - posted      Profile for Willie1Foot     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I saw it as her planting a seed of moral hope in Chigurh. If there's any hope of him being turned around (and there was a flicker in his eyes when she refused to call it), there's hope for all of us.
Posts: 3221 | From: the shores of Botany Bay | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Amor de Cosmos
Member
Member # 87

 - posted      Profile for Amor de Cosmos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
That would certainly be the only possibility, and his attitude to the kids after the following accident might bear that out. However there was no reason for him to kill them either— and he never killed without, by his code, reason — so it remains uncertain.

[ 28.01.2008, 05:27: Message edited by: Amor de Cosmos ]

Posts: 7138 | From: here you can't get there | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Batebe of Toro Foundation
Member
Member # 465

 - posted      Profile for The Batebe of Toro Foundation     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
And what is moral hope worth when you're dead and no one was there to witness it except your killer?

Well, this is where you come back to the Christian thing, which is always sort of implicitly present in McCarthy. Righteousness doesn't need to be seen, and may lie in showing the opposite face to the world. Sermon on the Mount and all that. The story points to renunciation of the world as the only hope of moral rectitude, but bleak a hope as it may be, it is a hope.

I don't think there was anything to indicate a change in Chigurh's attitude in the episode with the kids. He doesn't ever kill just for the sake of it. I think it did two things; emphasised the parallels between himself and Moss, lest we find the latter too sympathetic, and show the further spread of corruption, as the two children squabble over the spoils of their bought silence.

Posts: 17027 | From: your gaff, nicking stuff. | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Joe Public
Member
Member # 48

 - posted      Profile for Joe Public     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
He doesn't ever kill just for the sake of it.
Didn't the minor - yet significant - incident where he shot at the bird when driving across the bridge suggest that he could kill for fun, too?

I think that is why that moment was included. With a script as tight as this everything meant something.

Posts: 4524 | From: The North-West Frontier | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
The Batebe of Toro Foundation
Member
Member # 465

 - posted      Profile for The Batebe of Toro Foundation     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
yeah, perhaps...

I still don't think the kids thing is him turning over a new leaf, or anything.

Posts: 17027 | From: your gaff, nicking stuff. | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Not me
Member
Member # 65

 - posted      Profile for Not me     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I thought it was trailor park guy who shot the bird on the bridge, not Bigface Killah.

I loved this, and thought the ending was both brave and just right. And Horse: the only clues that the Coen brothers might have been involved are that 1) regional US accents are spoken throughout, and 2) the cinematography is superb. There's no self-conscious quirkiness anywhere.

Posts: 4303 | From: The Ministry of the New New Super Heavy Funk | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Amor de Cosmos
Member
Member # 87

 - posted      Profile for Amor de Cosmos     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Coens' vision — faithful as it apparently is — must vary somewhat from McCarthy's even if only in details. Personally I'm less comfortable with the possibility of Chigurh's redemption than otherwise, but accept that the conclusion can be read either way. I'm just not sure why someone would create such a figure and then offer him a way out. He's the harbinger of a post-modern apocalypse and, like the other four horsemen, must destroy or be destroyed, he can never be redeemed.
Posts: 7138 | From: here you can't get there | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pants
Member
Member # 404

 - posted      Profile for Pants     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I loved it - and can't wait to see it again.

quote:
And Horse: the only clues that the Coen brothers might have been involved are that 1) regional US accents are spoken throughout, and 2) the cinematography is superb. There's no self-conscious quirkiness anywhere.
Hmm, I'm pretty positive you'd pick it as a Coen brothers film just by watching it (if somehow you didn't know). The cinematography and tone is very close to Blood Simple. I reckon Chigurh's haircut was a pretty self-conscious Coen touch, as was his weapon of choice, that gas cannister thingy.

quote:
it made a lot more sense as a companion to The Road. I'd love to see the Coens tackle that.
As mentioned over on OTBooks, The Road is being directed by John Hillcoat, the bloke who did The Proposition. The cinematography on that was amazing, so it should be brilliant.
Posts: 3266 | From: London | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
What's the rumpus?
Member
Member # 752

 - posted      Profile for What's the rumpus?     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Some very powerful ideas here, and immense skill (even if the film sometimes seems to be watching its own parable).

For me the ending - the outcome of the crash, the speech by Jones - makes it harder to parcel those ideas away.

"You can't stop what's coming" says an old man before the end, and somehow that becomes hopeful. Brutality isn't new, he also says, but that isn't the end of it.

The most evil character is the one who is most deluded about being in control - the film suggests this is the power of the brutal - until he's jolted out of that delusion; fate is on its way.

Other characters come to an end because they make big decisions in error, but also because they stop for a beer or forget to look over their shoulder or because the coin takes a extra spin: it doesn't matter.

But that isn't the end of it. The cop's dream speaks of making a difference, if only to somebody after. MacDonald's character (echoing Fargo) doesn't need to outwit evil in order to face it down.

It is a fantastic film - Drebin is right about the brilliance of the garage scene - and suggests an amazing book.

Posts: 907 | Registered: Oct 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Alania Vladikavkaz Satie
Member
Member # 1570

 - posted      Profile for Alania Vladikavkaz Satie     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Just back from it tonight.

*************spoiler*************************


The husband was definitely shot dead by the mexicans, who were alerted by the haircuts boss as to his whereabouts. Presumably the haircut was keeping the boss informed?
If you remember the boss had also hired Woody H as extra back up, and how else would Woody H know where to find the husband in Mexico if he wasnt tipped of by the boss?
I think the wife was killed due to the aforementioned boots checking scene. Remember haircut put his feet on the table while talking on the phone after killing Woody H to avoid getting blood on his boots. Also he went barefoot a few times when preparing to kill earlier. Plus he pulled the shower curtain over to avoid getting blood splashed on himself when killing the guy standing in the bath. He didnt want blood all over his dsigner denims and boots.

Great film let down by a lazy ending.

*****************end of spoiler*****************


Saw it in the Trocadero, London with Cloverfield next door and the noise the fuckin monsters footsteps were making was unreal....I thought he was gonna come through the wall into our section.

Posts: 1754 | From: The Magic Carpet. | Registered: Jun 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
RobW
Member
Member # 1522

 - posted      Profile for RobW     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
If the film is faithful to the book, then I suppose I can't really complain about the abrupt ending and the fact the bad guy seemingly gets away. It is a fantastic film, with many great performances. I was a little taken aback when I heard Kelly MacDonald was in it. I suppose she'll always be 'Diane' in Trainspotting to me, but she was absolutely magnificent.
My only complaint apart from the ending is how characters are introduced without the audience really knowing who they are, but that's a minor quibble.

Posts: 1196 | From: London | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
My name is Mumpo
Member
Member # 551

 - posted      Profile for My name is Mumpo     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
BUMP to get Rob's spoiler off the Active Topics page
Posts: 23475 | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
  This topic comprises 6 pages: 1  2  3  4  5  6   

   Close Topic   Feature Topic   Move Topic   Delete Topic next oldest topic   next newest topic
Hop To:


Contact Us | WSC

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2

    This board has been transferred to www.wsc.co.uk,

    why not join us there