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» One Touch Football - Archive » Sport » The Michael Jordan remembrance thread (Page 14)

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Author Topic: The Michael Jordan remembrance thread
jason voorhees
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It's the entire district. If accepted, I can get sent anywhere.

http://www.bcteachingresidency.org/

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Soccer Scrimmage
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I assume everyone has heard about Houston's 20 game winning streak, which is now tied for second all-time. I was shocked when I saw the record: 33 straight by the 71-2 Lakers. That's a Secretariat-style gap between one and two.
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Inca
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NBATV video on that Laker streak (really good picture quality--I was very surprised).

That streak lasted from Nov. 5, 1971 to Jan 7, 1972. During that time, UCLA was having their 88 game unbeaten streak, which went from Jan. 30, 1971 to Jan. 19, 1974.

I might be shouted down for homerism, but is there another city that has both a great college and pro basketball team like Los Angeles with UCLA and the Lakers? I can't think of one.

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Soccer Scrimmage
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Thanks for the video, Inca.

I think you are right about LA, which doesn't just have to do with the tremendous success of both the Lakers and Bruins, but also the fact that NBA teams are all in cities, and UCLA is the only great NCAA basketball program located in a city.

The only other city that I can think of that has what could be considered a top-tier NCAA team and an NBA team is Washington, and between them Georgetown and the Bullets have won, what, a tenth of LA's titles?

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Reed
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Maryland is practically in DC too, so that sort of counts.

I think New York's status in college basketball was undone by the CUNY betting scandal.

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ursus arctos
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If the Kentucky Colonels of the ABA ever played in Lexington (I don't remember), they may have a better claim than Georgetown and the Bullets. Even just adding them to Louisville isn't bad, but UK would really help. And Philly has a shout with the Warriors/Sixers and 'Nova.

The other possibles tend to break down on either the pro (San Francisco, Cincinnati), or college side (Boston, Chicago, San Antonio, Detroit), with New York failing on both counts (unless one goes back to the days of CCNY, NYU and point shaving).

You periodically see a school try to make a run at establishing themselves in a NBA city, but it usually ends in tears. Examples of this in my lifetime include St. John's (and to a lesser extent Fordham), Depaul and Boston College.

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Soccer Scrimmage
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This becomes all the more interesting when we consider that the hotbeds of basketball talent are generally cities. So, is the fact that the best college teams tend to be in small cities/college towns (Bloomington, Lawrence, Chapel Hill, Durham, etc) simply a coincidence, or the result of historical intertia, or is there a structural reason why kids from Detroit, Chicago, New York, etc, tend not to play in their hometowns?

Or is the premise of this question completely wrong?

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Bomb A Nero
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I just noticed that, in addition to Honka's Monte Cummings and ToPo's Jerald Fields getting fired for smoking weed, Fields's team mate Iiro Tenngren is being prosecuted for 'drug crimes'. The police found speed and cocaine at his house, but Finnish media reports don't specify how much, as far as I can make out.

The club are not playing him but say they cannot sack him, because their own drug test was negative.

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ursus arctos
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SocScrim, I don't think the premise is wrong at all, and I think the reasons for it are cultural and historical.

Some relevant factors (not necessarily in order):

1) The towns you mention (I would add Lexington) all combine a reasonably large student body with a decent size surrounding area that is generally devoid of other major sports (at least in the winter); enough to fill a decent-sized arena on a regular basis even before the March Madness and ESPN-fueled explosion of interest in college basketball in the 80s. In contrast, city schools tend to be smaller and, more importantly, have much greater competition for the "entertainment dollar".

2) The sports focus of those schools and the positive sports-related experience undergrads have help fuel alumni booster networks that add significantly to the "intrinsic" advantages certain programs have noted above. This is particularly the case in which the team is by far the biggest thing in the state/region (i.e., Carolina, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas). Urban schools rarely have anything like those networks, their fund raising tends to be directed in different directions and their alumni tend to end up more scattered geographically.

3) The parents (mostly mothers) of kids who grow up in tough parts of the city generally would prefer that their sons play their college ball in a different environment. If you grow up in projects on the South Side of Chicago or Coney Island, Bloomington will look rather boring to you, but incredibly safe to your mom.

4) The point-shaving scandals of the 50s absolutely killed college basketball in the NY metropolitan era. CCNY and LIU, which were both national powers, have never recovered. NYU is a Division III school. The legacy of that scandal and its effect on competition, hampered St. John's development and allowed coaches like the McGuires to build virtually all New York teams at places like South Carolina and Marquette. Subsequent point shaving scandals hit the Boston College, Northwestern and University of San Francisco programs, and you know about Georgetown's issues with "unsavory characters". Despite the fact that urban schools don't have a monopoly on scandal (Kentucky was the first one to get the death penalty in the 50s), there is still a strong presumption that urban programs have to be more careful than their rural counterparts.

All of those factors put the urban schools at a disadvantage from their country cousins and have meant that with the notable exception of Georgetown and few other schools (mostly in the Big East and Pac-10), the teams that all of the current generation of kids grew up watching on ESPN tend to be from places very different from the places they live.

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Inca
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quote:
The point-shaving scandals of the 50s absolutely killed college basketball in the NY metropolitan era.
UCLA fans continue to celebrate that.  -
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Soccer Scrimmage
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That was an excellent post ursus.
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Gangster Octopus
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quote:
point-shaving
Que?
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Inca
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Basically, players on the favored team don't score enough points to cover the points spread (how much they're supposed to win by), and get a reward from bettors who have bet on the underdog.

It's really easy to do in basketball, where one or two players having an off night, turning the ball over, or committing a foul can really influence the final score without throwing the game completely.

edit: ESPN overview of the scandal. I never really knew the specifics--it sounds incredible:

quote:
n 1950, City College accomplished perhaps the greatest feat in basketball history, winning the National Invitation and the NCAA tournaments. One year later there was devastation as New York District Attorney Frank Hogan indicted players from four New York schools, including City College. The other New York schools were Manhattan College, New York University and Long Island University.

The earthshaking scandals of 1951, which eventually reached to seven schools and 32 players around the country, actually erupted on Jan. 17, 1951 when Henry Poppe and Jack Byrnes of the previous year's Manhattan team plus three fixers: Cornelious Kelleher and brothers Benjamin and Irving Schwartzberg, who were bookmakers and convicted felons, were booked on bribery and conspiracy charges. All were in violation of section 382 of the penal code, the bill passed by the New York State legislature in 1945, which established as illegal an attempt to bribe a participant in any sporting event, amateur or professional. Poppe and Byrnes actually "had done business" with Kelleher in the 1949-50 season and received $50 a week during the off season of that year plus $3,000 to insure Manhattan lost games by the point margin to Siena, Santa Clara and Bradley in Madison Square Garden.

Byrnes and Poppe also received an additional $2,000 each to go over the point margin in games with St. Francis College of Brooklyn and New York University.

Poppe had met with Manhattan junior center Junius Kellogg, who stood 6-8 and was the first black man to play for a Manhattan College basketball team. Kellogg came to Manhattan after 40 months in the U.S. Army. He entered Manhattan under the GI Bill.

Kellogg had refused a $1,000 offer from his former teammate, Hank Poppe (who was a pretty good player, holding the Manhattan career scoring record with 1,027 points). Poppe asked Kellogg to reconsider and suggested a meeting three days later on January 14. Kellogg promptly reported the offer from Poppe to his coach Ken Norton, who informed Brother Bonventure Thomas, Manhattan College's president, who endorsed the idea of going to the police.

The police instructed Kellogg to pretend he was going along with Poppe's offer.

Kellogg was picked up in the parking lot at Manhattan by Poppe and driven to a bar near the campus at Broadway and 242nd Street.

Kellogg told Poppe he accepted and asked what he should do to fix the DePaul game on Tuesday, Jan. 16. He was instructed in errors to commit (and not to be too obvious with his mistakes). Poppe spoke to Kellogg at courtside at the Garden before the game, telling him Manhattan was favored by 10 points--be sure to win by less.

Manhattan won by three, 62-59, as Kellogg's substitute, Charles Jennerich, scored on all eight of his shot attempts.

Kellogg showered and rushed to meet Poppe at Gilhooley's bar on 8th Avenue near the Garden. Kellogg was followed by detectives into the bar. Poppe did not show, but was arrested at his home in Queens at 3 in the morning. He was cooperative and implicated Byrnes for "throwing" 1949-50 games, but not in the attempt to bribe Kellogg. Byrnes was arrested two hours later.

Max Kase, Sports Editor of the Journal-American, who gave Hogan the "tip" on college basketball point shaving, broke the story on Jan. 18, receiving a counter favor (or break) from District Attorney Hogan.

In the 1951 scandals, referee Sol Levy, an accomplice of former LIU player Eddie Gard, was suspended for arranging the outcome on "fixing" six NBA games in 1950. There was no provision in the revised New York State Law of 1945 for referees. This was changed in 1951.

The real flood came on Feb. 18, 1951 when the CCNY players Ed Warner, Ed Roman and Al Roth were arrested on charges of bribery in Penn Station, New York, after returning from Philadelphia, where City beat Temple, 95-71.

The arrests of the three City College players on that February evening were the initial tremor of the earthquake of scandal that hit college basketball.

Eventually, District Attorney Frank Hogan arrested 32 players from seven colleges who fixed 86 games between 1947 and 1950.

The CCNY players who were arrested that first evening (under the New York State sports bribery law of 1945) were booked with Harvey (Connie) Schaaf of NYU at the Elizabeth Street Station.

Also booked that evening were the greedy, but nontheless ineffective fixer Salvatore "Tarto" Sollazzo and Eddie Gard, the former LIU player, who was Sollazzo's agent in arranging "dumps."

Two days later (Feb. 20), Sherman White, LeRoy Smith and Adolph Bigos of LIU were arrested for taking bribes from Sollazzo via Gard "to throw" games. The previous day, White had been named Player of the Year by The Sporting News. White had averaged 27.7 points per game and needed 77 points to set an all-time collegiate scoring record.

White was perhaps New York college basketball's best player ever. Bigos was a 25-year-old senior who had served 2 1/2 years in the Army and earned a Bronze Star. He enrolled at LIU under the GI Bill. He tried out for coach Clair Bee and earned a basketball scholarship. Smith, from the streets of Newark, was a former Marine.

I know HBO produced a documentary on this, which is supposed to be very good, but it's not available on video.

[ 14.03.2008, 14:31: Message edited by: Inca ]

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jason voorhees
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Henry Hill, the guy whom Ray Liotta portrayed in Goodfellas, was on Howard the other day and was saying how he and Jimmy (the guy that DeNiro portrayed) would sit courtside at BC games and laugh their asses off when players would throw a pass into the audience or shoot a ball over the backboard because they knew why.
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jason voorhees
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He also claimed the mafia fixed the entire 1980 Final Four.
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